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  1. #21

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    These cameras are famous for their durability, and there are some pretty amazing bargains out there right now with the exception of a couple of late rare lenses like the 75/2.8 and 300EDIF, which are likely sell at astronomical prices. You need mirror lock, but any P67 without that feature is old indeed. The old series of lenses are called Takumars, but are usable on any of the P67 camera. The next generation of lenses are superior in my opinion, and a couple of my favorites for speed and sharpness are the 165/2.8 and the 105/2.4. What you do need to be aware of is that the finders are not wholly interchangeable - those which fit the later P67II differ from those which fit all the older cameras. The mirror lock on the II also has less battery drain than the previous cameras, hence it is coveted by astrophotographers who take long exposures. Otherwise, I don't think the added bells and whistles are all that big a deal. It's basically a no-nonsense system resembling an oversized manual SLR. A tripod is strongly recommended unless you're shooting normal to wide lenses at relatively high shutter speeds. It
    makes an excellent aerial camera, and at one time an underwater housing for it was also made.

  2. #22

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    The 75mm shift lens is on my want list and has been on it for some time now. I just don't want to spend the money, but if one fell in my lap at a good price I'd snatch it up. I've had Canon, Nikon and Minolta shift lenses for 35mm and while they are no view camera they are pretty neat and fun to have. I'll second everything Drew said except maybe the "superior" part about the later, better coated lenses over the Takumars. A little better, slightly better, slightly more contrast, a little more contrast, maybe, but I, myself, don't think they are superior. Of course I have never used the 300mm ED or the 400mm ED and I might be missing that later Pentax lens superiority. I did get a chance to try the 165mm f2.8 against my 165mm f4LS and I still have the 165mm LS 'cause I didn't want to spend the extra money and the 165mmLS is plenty good enough for me. This is just from my experience with the lenses I have so I could be missing something. JohnW

  3. #23
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f/16 View Post
    Thanks Craig. Something else I wanted to ask. Is MLU necessary for a sharp pic? Is mirror slap bad with the 6x7?

    MLU is available on both the early Honeywell/Asahi Pentax and later Pentax bodies. In some rare examples, a factory-fitted (not DIY!) multi-exposure facility is available (which I have) which can add an extra fun dimension with multiple exposures and juxtapositions. The prime use of MLU is to reduce the risk of vibration from the mirror with Pentax's humungous telephoto lenses. However, MLU is exceptionally useful with all lenses when tripod shooting as it will virtually guarantee the best lens performance and thus show this through on the lightbox. Mirror slap together with shutter whack can ruin handheld pictures; there are many who will tell you a tripod isn't necessary and that a 67 can be hand-held to 1/60 with no evidence of vibration. Fine, then show me the print at 10x and we'll prove them wrong! Handheld or tripod, a refined technique will bring out the very, very best this quite large image size is capable of delivering.

    Finders are freely interchangeable. However, be aware of an idiosyncracy of design that dictates how you mount a finder and a lens in order to avoid breakage of the aperture coupling chain (which is used for the TTL metered prism. The standard TTL metered prism is a 90% field of view so you need to train yourself to watch for the extra 10% around the edges (not hard with experience). A chimney finder and waist-level finder are available, both presenting their own minor challenges of use.

    On the TTL meter, the midline is the exact point between a 5-stop exposure range, thus a needle in the middle upper area will be over-exposed and conversely, in the lower middle area, under-exposed. Up top or down the bottom will be 2.5 stops under- or over-exposed. First roll of exposures should be done using transparency film, hand-held metered along with TTL metered, and the results critically examined. Shutter speeds are electronically controlled and can lose their accuracy if the shutter remained cocked for an extended period of time.

    A shift lens is best left to the geeks. It is of no real use unless shift is combined with tilt (tilt or swing, a la large format) or in the smaller 35mm where advanced control of perspective (not just position) contribute a lot more than a shift function alone. The shift lens is also a borderline slow lens at f4.5. Invest in wide and tele lenses — there are an excellent variety available, some much better than others, with the 45mm and 55mm lenses sitting at the top tier, closely followed by the squat telephotos of 104 and 90mm, some at f2.8. A little below that is one of Pentax's jewels: a 75mm f2.8 AL lens that still commands a very steep price new. Leaf shutter lenses (the 165mm LS and 75mm f2.8 AL are still made by Pentax) are heavier than the non-LS equivalents, and require careful observation of correct use and out-of-use (springs-relaxed) storage. The 90mm LS lens can be used with mirror lock-up, but not the 165LS — which incidentally begs for MLU to get the best results it is capable of. LS is only really of use for flash exposures, which present a somewhat old-fashioned throwback compared to the bells and whistles TTL flash metering of the smaller 35mm brethren. If studio work is your forté and you have a light set up for portraiture, the 165 would be a beaut choice.

    Many older 6x7 bodies are well getting on now. I would skip over these often battered, bruised and wonky examples unless you have the facility to accurately get to the bottom of any problems that develop which are age-related. Excellent to mint condition newer 67 bodies are the bombs, but you will need your wits about you: examine the film advance, shutter curtain and battery compartment (often corroded out on very old bodies — can be replaced from scavanged parts). The wind-on mechanism is a potential trouble spot on bodies that have been roughly handled: it has an arcane internal mechanism that can be stripped with rough winding technique (which is one firm continuous swing and not several). Try and have a through touchy-feely of any body you are interested in, or at least ask many pointed questions of it if you cannot get to see it in person.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  4. #24
    f/16's Avatar
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    So the 165 LS can't be used with MLU? Do you mean when leaf shutter is used or at all? I mean can it be used with MLU when you're using only the camera's shutter?
    Bill

    Pentax 645, Pentax 6X7MLU, and many Nikons-F2 Photomic F2AS FM2N N2000 N6000 N6006 Nikomat FTN

  5. #25

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    I told you the 165mm LS was a different beast! You can use MLU in the non-LS mode. Go to this thread http://www.apug.org/forums/forum51/1...mirror-up.html

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wiegerink View Post
    I told you the 165mm LS was a different beast! You can use MLU in the non-LS mode. Go to this thread http://www.apug.org/forums/forum51/1...mirror-up.html
    Thanks for the link. At least MLU can be used without the leaf shutter. LS is something I won't be using much. But 1/500 should be fast enough to not be affected by mirror slap??
    Bill

    Pentax 645, Pentax 6X7MLU, and many Nikons-F2 Photomic F2AS FM2N N2000 N6000 N6006 Nikomat FTN

  7. #27
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f/16 View Post
    So the 165 LS can't be used with MLU? Do you mean when leaf shutter is used or at all? I mean can it be used with MLU when you're using only the camera's shutter?

    The design of the 165LS is quite different (complex) to its shorter 90mm brother. The leaf shutter is useable in the circumstances for which it was designed (flash sync at all speeds), perfectly so, just not with MLU, with leaf shutter mode engaged. With leaf shutter mode disengaged, the 165LS acts like a big, fat, round telephoto (and a bloody good one at that). Engage leaf shutter mode, connect a flash circuit and presto! You have bragging rights. Big time.

    You cannot use the leaf shutter only/independently of the 67 shutter.

    Be aware that with either LS lens, and leaf shutter mode engaged, there will be no viewfinder image: the mirror is not up, but the leaf shutter is cocked. Camera shutter fires first, then LS.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    The design of the 165LS is quite different (complex) to its shorter 90mm brother. The leaf shutter is useable in the circumstances for which it was designed (flash sync at all speeds), perfectly so, just not with MLU, with leaf shutter mode engaged. With leaf shutter mode disengaged, the 165LS acts like a big, fat, round telephoto (and a bloody good one at that). Engage leaf shutter mode, connect a flash circuit and presto! You have bragging rights. Big time.

    You cannot use the leaf shutter only/independently of the 67 shutter.

    Be aware that with either LS lens, and leaf shutter mode engaged, there will be no viewfinder image: the mirror is not up, but the leaf shutter is cocked. Camera shutter fires first, then LS.
    Yes, I agree that it is a fine lens and I again want to thank you for tutoring me on how to use it correctly. It was a bit of a letdown when I found I couldn't use it with MLU, but I get by fine. It still would have been nice if Pentax would have followed through with the same mechanical design as my 90mm f2.8LS. That separate cable release socket on the 90MM LS makes for almost no vibration at all and the 165mm LS needs that more than the shorter 90mm LS. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. I'll at least settle for great optics and flash sync to boot. JohnW

  9. #29
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wiegerink View Post
    Yes, I agree that it is a fine lens and I again want to thank you for tutoring me on how to use it correctly. It was a bit of a letdown when I found I couldn't use it with MLU, but I get by fine. It still would have been nice if Pentax would have followed through with the same mechanical design as my 90mm f2.8LS. That separate cable release socket on the 90MM LS makes for almost no vibration at all and the 165mm LS needs that more than the shorter 90mm LS. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. I'll at least settle for great optics and flash sync to boot. JohnW

    BTW (and I suspect you know this) both 90mm LS and 165mm LS must have 1/8 sec shutter speed set on the camera with leaf shutter mode engaged, and any speed marked on the LS lens can be used with LS engaged — that's the fun part. The 1/8 sec shutter syn is a quaint reminder of the old origins of the 6x7/67 workhorses, but it does the job!

    Store the lens (not mounted on camera) with the leaf shutter closed as this releases tension on the tiny internal springs and pawls.

    AND, no, you can't have everything. Where would you put it all??

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________

    • Lower Rollasons Falls,
    Mount Buffalo, Victoria, Australia January 2013
    SMC Pentax 165mm LS (non-LS mode); MLU.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Poisson Du Jour; 07-26-2013 at 11:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  10. #30
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    I stumbled across some samples of the 67 handheld and drum scanned. Look at this flickr photo and surrounding ones. He has cropped examples which are pretty amazing.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tsiklonaut/9214794260/

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