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  1. #21
    Prest_400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRichard View Post
    I quite often want to write people letters, however I agree; it takes too much precious facebook time to find a pen and write someone a letter.


    Add a print in too, when you get around to do it!

    Now I happen to have a bunch of prints of people, and I want to send them off to them. Some to relatives and friends from afar. Others are friends on my same town, but seems impossible to track them lately.
    I have a central post office near my route and given some free time and my tendency to stroll; I will mail some.

    Back to the Chromogenic longevity topic; In 20-30 years, there should be quite some improvement and current materials should be quite better, Ektar and Portra compared to previous generation materials.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuniform View Post
    Digital data storage is one of the under-exposed (pun intended) topics of digital media. It's not news that magnetic media will suffer dropouts. It happened with tape, and it can happen with hard drives. Usually, I hear of hard drives dying due to other issues, bad sectors, etc, but there is a solution, and it takes a bit of planning.

    I have 2 copies of everything, on-site and off, that I constantly migrate forward onto new hardware every year. No, I don't sample every file to ensure that there is no corruption loss, but I do sample a meaningful percentage.

    So, I budget an extra $1k every year for storage, and I update the media with newer, usually larger, devices (hard drives currently). I don't use or rely on cloud services, because really, I have almost 2tb of data and that will just never make it to or from any cloud service without additional costs.

    I'd rather have digital color stored correctly than forcing myself to only shoot black and white film. (Note, I still shoot a lot of 4x5 C-41).
    not to be morbid, what happens when you die? Who is going to take over all that maintenance? How can you count on there being someone who is both interested and technically proficient enough to turn all of those digital files into something visible?how will they even know where to start? How can you trust but all of that gear what just get tossed into the bin?

    you sound like a very dedicated and skilled hobbyist. All the same, you are still trusting that's some unknown person in the future is going to be there in order to utilize all of those photos.

  3. #23

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    I'm a old lab rat. We hate the drug store labs they use waterless C41 & RA for paper.
    No true fixing.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusM3 View Post
    Digital files, as in stored on a hard drive, cloud, viewed on a screen, in a browser, social networks, etc, are essentially worthless and prone to eventually disappear. Anyone really dedicated should at the very least get serious about printing those files for some chance at archival. I have been shooting a bit of digital lately but it is for a photogravure project so for every image there is a digital positive and, more importantly, a copper plate from which beautiful prints are produced that will outlast me and my children. This is the ONLY way I can justify using a digital camera for some of my work. Film is and will always be king.
    Yes, prints are akin to the negative for the digital photog.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuniform View Post
    Digital data storage is one of the under-exposed (pun intended) topics of digital media. It's not news that magnetic media will suffer dropouts. It happened with tape, and it can happen with hard drives. Usually, I hear of hard drives dying due to other issues, bad sectors, etc, but there is a solution, and it takes a bit of planning.

    I have 2 copies of everything, on-site and off, that I constantly migrate forward onto new hardware every year. No, I don't sample every file to ensure that there is no corruption loss, but I do sample a meaningful percentage.

    So, I budget an extra $1k every year for storage, and I update the media with newer, usually larger, devices (hard drives currently). I don't use or rely on cloud services, because really, I have almost 2tb of data and that will just never make it to or from any cloud service without additional costs.

    I'd rather have digital color stored correctly than forcing myself to only shoot black and white film. (Note, I still shoot a lot of 4x5 C-41).
    When all tumblers have clicked I may have a dozen or more digital back ups at 3 sites. Once digital is gone your fudged. I can never have enough back ups. And I use SD cards like film. I never erase them. Have been saved many times by this alone when I screw up and delete a file. As long as you have a master print, you can recover 90% to 95% of an image.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...oli_Jr_LLR.jpg

    If you use SD cards like film, every few years give them a charge in the computer. They claim to have a 10+ year lifespan without a charge.

    But archival or not...I just love the look of film...

    (nude warning)

    http://danielteolijr.tumblr.com/image/46285276239

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    not to be morbid, what happens when you die? Who is going to take over all that maintenance? How can you count on there being someone who is both interested and technically proficient enough to turn all of those digital files into something visible?how will they even know where to start? How can you trust but all of that gear what just get tossed into the bin?
    Future Last Wills will have to have your passwords.

  7. #27
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    not to be morbid, what happens when you die? Who is going to take over all that maintenance? How can you count on there being someone who is both interested and technically proficient enough to turn all of those digital files into something visible?how will they even know where to start? How can you trust but all of that gear what just get tossed into the bin?
    Just spent three days at the state fair with a 4x5 Crown and flashbulbs. Ran into a nice fellow who good-naturedly teased me for using it. He said he gave up on film three years ago because "all I could do was 36 pictures at a time, so none of them were ever any good." The solution, he said, was to buy his new digital camera. He held it up for me to see.

    Then he says, "Now I get almost all good pictures. In the last three years I've gotten over 17,000 (!!!) keepers."

    "Wow. Do you back up your computer?"

    "No. I've copied them all to CDs to save them."

    "Where do you get your blank CDs?"

    "Oh... At the grocery store. They don't cost very much..."

    He was very earnest. His two teenage girls were very cute. He was very proud. I didn't have the heart to tell him anything more about grocery store CDs. I probably should have, but I just couldn't do it.

    Ken

    (In another thread I mentioned the phenomenon of computer digitalization and virtualization debasing real life. I got beat up for it pretty good. This would be a poignant example of that very debasement.)

    (Someday this fellow will be on his death bed. When his two adult daughters come to comfort him by reminiscing about how he used to take them to the state fair as teenagers, what will have become of those 17,000 pictures they could have looked at together?)

    (Damn it. Looking back, I should have said something...)
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    I was having a conversation with my oldest daughter over the weekend. She is a young mother with two little kids. All of her photos are digital. I highly encouraged her to get prints made and put them in albums.
    ...
    Print. Your. Pictures!
    I too encourage people to print their digital pictures - and not via their home printer. I tell them to go down to a drugstore or pro-shop with an USB drive. Few have listened. One person I work with, upon my admonition, told me he once lost over 1,500 pictures when his laptop drive crashed. Now he backs-up to CD/DVD. I told him that he really needs to print the photos he wants to save, because a print will last longer than optical media.
    Truzi

  9. #29
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    I can't realy say if film is better , because I don't shoot aything else but film..
    Ben

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusM3 View Post
    Digital files, as in stored on a hard drive, cloud, viewed on a screen, in a browser, social networks, etc, are essentially worthless and prone to eventually disappear. Anyone really dedicated should at the very least get serious about printing those files for some chance at archival. I have been shooting a bit of digital lately but it is for a photogravure project so for every image there is a digital positive and, more importantly, a copper plate from which beautiful prints are produced that will outlast me and my children. This is the ONLY way I can justify using a digital camera for some of my work. Film is and will always be king.
    Well, as much as I love film and take the time to process it well I can't agree that it is absolutely longer lasting than a well cared for, backed-up digital file. All it takes is one fire or flood for every copy of my negatives to be gone. I have an dear friend who lost almost all his negatives in Irene. He and I easily keep multiple copies of our digital work in various places.

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