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  1. #21
    Pioneer's Avatar
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    The Fuji GA645 would be my first choice for you. It will allow you to have fun with medium format without a weight or size penalty that you can't live with. If you have never worked with medium format you will be stunned with what 645 can do, regardless of what others try to tell you. This will probably run around $600 though I have not priced them lately. Will accept 120 or 220 film.

    A Fuji GF670 (or the Bessa equivalent) is by far your best choice for a modern folder. This Fuji really is in a class by itself. A beautiful lens, compact size, excellent rangefinder focusing, a great metering system. Even the best of the older folders just cannot compete, though some come close. But, it will run $1200 for a used one, $1700 for new, though again prices can vary on this. Size and weight is similar to the Fuji GA 645 but the film size increases to 6x6 or 6x7 on 120 or 220.

    A TLR is a great option as well. There are lots of options here, Rolleiflex is considered at the top of the heap, but the Minolta AutoCord or YashicaMat is also a good option. I personally like the YashicaMat, mine takes 6x6 pictures on 120 or 220 film and has an awesome lens. The film advance is allegedly not as robust as the one found in the Rolleiflex, but it has not failed me yet. The camera is light, compact, and very easy to handle. My YashicaMat cost me about $200, so it is one of the least expensive options here. However, if you have never used a TLR then there will certainly be a learning curve. I has taken me over a year to get comfortable using it.

    Good luck and have fun. Medium format is still a terrific way to capture magnificent images.
    Dan

    The simplest tools can be the hardest to master.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    If you intend to shoot 6X4.5 slides 120 projectors are expensive.
    I have a projector enlarger that makes 35mm into 120!

    Jeff

  3. #23
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Yes. If you want a 645 system. Do you like printing rectangles?

    If yes, 645 is a good compromise between speed and negative size. With today's films you can go pretty big from a nice 645 negative and have enough quality, unless you're a grain peeper.

    If you like to be more flexible, you should consider a 6x6. It offers the possibility of shooting square and cropping to rectangle, both horizontally and vertically. I like that.
    But the cameras end up bigger, and you get fewer negatives out of a roll. Fact of life.

    If you don't mind a significantly bigger camera, there's always 6x7. Less cropping, and usually these cameras are available with revolving backs, which is nice so you don't have to tilt the whole camera 90 degrees when you want to change from horizontal to vertical framing (which is a pain in the neck).

    Do you need speed when you shoot? In that case you should consider 35mm. Nothing is faster, and you still can make incredible prints from the tiny negatives. Unless you're a grain peeper.

    If you don't mind waiting, a 6x9 would really give you a nice negative. But you might as well go 4x5, maybe with a roll film back for more economy when shooting.

    Always figure out what you want to achieve first, and what you like. Then figure out how to get there.

    If it were me - Rolleiflex if I could have just one camera. But you don't like waist level finders. So the Fuji 645 or Bronica 645 would be good for you, for sure. Think about the FUJI 67 rangefinder too.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #24

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    645's are (were) for wedding photographers. That's all the redeeming quality I can see in one. You can't buy 220 any more, so it can't replace a 35 for shooting willy-nilly. And it can't do what a 67 can do in terms of neg quality. It's closer to a 35 than anything else, so why not stick with a 35? Just extra bulk and expense for diminishing returns. Unless you're a wedding photographer still using one. Then you're a poor man because the digital people are killing you.

  5. #25
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    645's are (were) for wedding photographers. That's all the redeeming quality I can see in one. You can't buy 220 any more, so it can't replace a 35 for shooting willy-nilly. And it can't do what a 67 can do in terms of neg quality. It's closer to a 35 than anything else, so why not stick with a 35? Just extra bulk and expense for diminishing returns. Unless you're a wedding photographer still using one. Then you're a poor man because the digital people are killing you.
    Portra is available in 220. There are wedding photographers who are doing well with film- they're not on the lowest end of the scale, though.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #26
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I spent much of today helping a friend who is new to medium format and close to new to darkroom work. We were working on an 11 x 14 print from one of her first rolls shot with a Bronica ETRs. In this case, she used a tripod.

    The detail we were able to reveal in her print was wonderful. The shot, which I believe was on FP4+, could easily have been enlarged to 16x20.

    I regularly get similar results with my Mamiya 645 Pro and either Plus-X or TMY-2. And I regularly get transparencies that are both a joy to project and, when scanned, give excellent 12x16 colour prints.

    If you print rectangular photographs, 6x4.5 is capable of the same quality as 6x6.

    I also shoot 6x6 and 6x7. The negatives from those cameras are also good to print.

    Finally, I shoot 35mm film as well. When I print to something like 11x14, I can usually get results I am happy with, but I definitely prefer 6x4.5 negatives, because they are substantially larger than their 35mm cousins.

    Either an ETRS or a 645 Pro is a fair bit more bulky then my 35mm eqipment, but it is similar in size to some of the digital equipment out there.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #27

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    Then why not go on fleabay and get yourself an old Mamiya m645 and give it a go? Can't lose much.

  8. #28
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom1956 View Post
    645's are (were) for wedding photographers. That's all the redeeming quality I can see in one. You can't buy 220 any more, so it can't replace a 35 for shooting willy-nilly. And it can't do what a 67 can do in terms of neg quality. It's closer to a 35 than anything else, so why not stick with a 35? Just extra bulk and expense for diminishing returns. Unless you're a wedding photographer still using one. Then you're a poor man because the digital people are killing you.
    I'll reign in my initial reaction and just say that I respectfully disagree with you.

    645 is something like double the image area of 35mm (I'll let someone else do the math(s) if they want to get a precise number) and whatever those numbers may seem to imply, the actual impression of step up is substantial. It's also the same image area you will get if you crop a 6x6 negative to 8x10 proportions which I find I do about half the time with my 6x6 negatives (the fervent anti-cropping crowd can disregard that.)

    It is true, of course, that 6x7 is a huge step up again, doubling the negative area again. But it's also a huge step up in size and weight. A 6x7 rangefinder will be huge compared to a 645 one. There are folders but any camera in 6x7 is just going to be a lot larger than the same type of camera in 645. An RB 67 makes a great tripod camera but, while it CAN be handheld, I wouldn't swap my Mamiya 645 Pro for one for carrying around - the 645 Pro, as someone alluded, is big enough.

    The 645's proper competition is 6x6 not 6x7. And it just depends on whether you will crop much of the time, in which case you might as well shoot 645, or print square. In this case we are talking about slides and a projector that can handle 645 and 6x6 will be MUCH more affordable (though still a lot more than one for 35mm) than one that can handle 6x7.

    I shoot all three in one form or another, 645 in my Mamiya 645 Pro, 6x6 in my Yashicamat 124 and 6x7 via a RF back (mainly for color) in my view camera. Leaving aside the view camera which is a very different kind of shooting, the Mamiya is the most versatile, the Yashica is the most fun, and 35mm does in fact often get the nod over the 645, partly due to size/weight but mostly due to fast primes and having a couple of good zooms in 35mm. The 80mm 1.9 is, of course, available for the 645, I just don't have one.

    I will agree that a 645 Pro is a big honkin' camera to carry around though. Even with the 80mm 2.8 or my 55mm 2.8, add a film magazine and the winder grip (which makes the camera handle MUCH better) plus the AE prism finder and it does somewhat resemble an albatross around one's neck. It handles great though and the results are superb, and the size/weight penalty relative to 35mm is often mostly offset by the interchangeable backs meaning I don't have to also carry spare bodies loaded with different film. This may may not matter to you but I often need at least a couple of kinds of film available and loaded, even with the 15 shots per roll I get with the 645.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    645 is something like double the image area of 35mm (I'll let someone else do the math(s) if they want to get a precise number) and whatever those numbers may seem to imply, the actual impression of step up is substantial. It's also the same image area you will get if you crop a 6x6 negative to 8x10 proportions which I find I do about half the time with my 6x6 negatives (the fervent anti-cropping crowd can disregard that.)
    I agree Roger, this almost doubling is a significant step.

    41x57
    vs
    24x36

    HP5+ is a good practical example, It is a film I enjoy in Medium and Large Format. In 35 mm I have a love hate relationship with HP5+.

    it is dependent on the subject matter. If the main subject matter is large in the frame it seems to work fine for me; Head and shoulders portraits for example, full length portraits, not so much. What changes for me is the size of the details in relationship to the grain.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #30
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    I've owned a 1950s era 6x6 folder (Nettar), and I have to say, the images were incredibly sharp. It took far better pictures than I expected, AND it was no bigger than a 35mm SLR. However, I only shot two rolls of film with it and then sold it. Why? because the view finder was uselessly small. Maybe if I had a shoe mounted VF things would be different, but I just found it too hard to use.

    I have since moved on to a Bronica ETR-Si. I've only shot a handful of rolls on it. But, without the grip it isn't too large to carry in a DSLR bag, and holding it isn't overly akward (even with a prism). Adding the grip makes it pretty huge, but very easy to use. For all the talk of mirror slap, I took a number of very sharp hand held shots at 1/30 (something I really can't pull off with a 35mm SLR).

    I can't comment on the quality of 6x4.5 vs 6x7. But, as has been mentioned, for non-square prints, there is effectively no difference between 6x6 and 6x4.5. When looking at enlargers, many enlargers can only do 6x6, so if you have your own dark room (or aspire to have one), a 6x7 or larger will require a larger enlarger.

    I'm still new to darkroom printing, but I found that making really good looking prints from 645 is easier than from 35mm, and at 8x10 I can tell the difference. After making my first 8x10s from 645 I've vowed to use my Bronica much more.

    I think the idea of a TLR is a very good one for the OP (presuming you can get used to the WLF). They are small, take great photos, and work especially well on the street. With a WLF the 645 SLRs can be used similarly, but are longer and (imo) bulkier. The nice thing about a 645 is that it gives you choice, it can be a waist level street camera on day and a traditional SLR the next.

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