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  1. #31
    B-3
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    I'm very leary of the auction site after a few experiences I've had there, and I agree that it is best if you handle a camera before you buy it. However, if you know what you want, I wouldn't hesitate from buying used from a reputable dealer like B&H. I've had very good experiences with them - their descriptions are accurate - and they have some (I think) good deals on used medium format cameras.

    Personally, I like my TLR - though it did take some getting used to, and I'm also pleased with the results I'm getting from my 645 RF. Through experimentation I found that I don't like SLRs, but that's just me.

  2. #32

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    I feel certain that some people are going to jump all over me for making the suggestion, but if just want to wet your feet with medium format before jumping into the water, and you are something of a risk taker, you might consider a used Kiev 88CM on ebay. Older Kiev cameras such as the 88, 6C and 60 don’t have a very good reputation, and rightly so, but the 88CM is a much better design and is quite a good camera in my opinion. I bought mine on ebay for $175, and the seller even paid shipping from Seattle. For that I got a camera in almost mint condition, two backs, a regular prism plus a TTL meter prism finder and a 80mm multi-coated lens. And even though the older Kiev cameras are not very reliable the line of lenses was outstanding, plus you can even use on the Kiev 88CM the superb Carl Zeiss Jena lenses made for the Pentacon 6.

    This option is especially attractive should you need telephoto lenses because there are some really outstanding lenses available for the 88CM at very low prices, such as the 180mm and 300mm Sonnar lenses made by Carl Zeiss Jena. I personally have far less than $1k invested in my Kiev 88CM kit at this time and it includes, in addition to the camera and backs described above, the following: a 50mm Carl Zeiss Flektogon, a 65mm Mir, a 120mm Vega, a 180mm Sonnar, a 300mm Sonnar and a bellows.

    OK, so now everyone can tell me how wrong I am!!

    Sandy

  3. #33
    Ole
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    Sandy, you can jump all over your Kiev 88CM all you like, and it won't harm it at all.

    But get a "user", not a "mint" one: There's a reason some of them have hardly been unpacked, and that is "quality control". The non-existing one.

    Does the Kiev 88CM fit the amazing Arsat 30mm? That lens alone could nbe a reason for buying one
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Sandy, you can jump all over your Kiev 88CM all you like, and it won't harm it at all.

    But get a "user", not a "mint" one: There's a reason some of them have hardly been unpacked, and that is "quality control". The non-existing one.

    Does the Kiev 88CM fit the amazing Arsat 30mm? That lens alone could nbe a reason for buying one
    Yes, the Arsat 30mm lens is made in a mount for the Kiev 88CM. It is certainly an interesting lens with an amazing field of view.

    Sandy

  5. #35

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    I'll disagree with a few things. The Kiev 6C and 60 can be almost bullet proof. You'll find many more complaints about the various 88 type cameras. I'll also disagree that in today's market it makes sense to load up on Kiev cameras and parts. I've been buying Bronica ETR type lenses for less then similar Kiev lenses sell for. At worst I've paid similar prices.

    FWIW I have 80mm,90mm,150mm[currently broken],250mm F/5.6,65mm and 45mm Kiev lenses.Plus a Kiev 60 and 6C.

    I just don't think in today's market it makes sense.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    I'll disagree with a few things. The Kiev 6C and 60 can be almost bullet proof. You'll find many more complaints about the various 88 type cameras. I'll also disagree that in today's market it makes sense to load up on Kiev cameras and parts. I've been buying Bronica ETR type lenses for less then similar Kiev lenses sell for. At worst I've paid similar prices.

    FWIW I have 80mm,90mm,150mm[currently broken],250mm F/5.6,65mm and 45mm Kiev lenses.Plus a Kiev 60 and 6C.

    I just don't think in today's market it makes sense.
    I have not found the Kiev 6C and 60 to be at all bullet proof. I have a 6C with a faulty wind mechanism that makes it almost worthless, and a 60 that works fine but gives very inconsistent and uneven spacing between the negatives, sometimes overlapping. And I understand that this is very common. There were in fact a lot of problems with the old Kiev 88, but the 88CM is a newer design that has proven to be much more reliable than the old 88.

    As for being able to buy Bronica ETR lenses for less or similar price to Kiev lenses I have my doubts. Just out of curiosity I looked at the currently availble and finished auctions on ebay for Kiev and Bronica ETR and it certainly does appear to me that the Kiev lenses are going for quite a bit less, though it would be necessary to look at this over a longer period to draw any really valid conclusions.


    Sandy

  7. #37

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    I've bought most of my Bronica lenses from KEH. Ebay prices have tended to be higher. My 200mm in Excellent + condition from KEH was $150 I think. That's less then the 250mm I bought from Arax. Plus shipping from the US was much less then shipping from Europe. I did get a deal on a 105mm from Ebay but that hasn't shown up yet. Hopefully it'll turn out to be in good shape. The price was around $100 with shipping I think. I forget. Many of the really cheap Soviet lenses are coming from Europe along with hefty shipping charges. I've seen a few lenses that I wouldn't mind but the shipping cools my interest.

    If you've had more problems with the 6C/60 then the 88 you've been unlucky. Frame spacing isn't that hard to adjust. Both of my two cameras are very trouble free. I still don't think that it makes sense today.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    I've bought most of my Bronica lenses from KEH. Ebay prices have tended to be higher.
    Interesting. Maybe I need to look at KEH prices more often. I used to buy from KEH but there reached a point where the things I wanted were going for a lot less on ebay.

    But ebay is really a strange place and some things go for far more than they should. I have actually seen a few items sell for more on ebay than the price new.

    Sandy

  9. #39
    rst
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    Wow, such a long thread and not anybody mentioned the SL66.

    I would go with either with 6x7 (Mamia R something) or 6x6 with a used Rollei SL66.

    Well, for me I got used to the square, so I would go with the SL66. You will get bellows focusing (as the Mamia RB/RZ I think) and very good macroability (by retro mounting the lenses), together with a bit of shift (only 8 degrees up and down, but still better than nothing).

    As for lenses, I would start with a Planar 2.8/80mm and (depending on what you need more) would add a light tele (Sonnar 4/150mm) or a Distagon 4/50mm. Maybe a second magazine and a Rollei tripod mount will complete the set.

    ciao
    -- Ruediger

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    But ebay is really a strange place and some things go for far more than they should. I have actually seen a few items sell for more on ebay than the price new.

    Seems even wierder lately.

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