She must have really got one of the bad ones!
Originally Posted by raucousimages
What people are not taking into account is the camera this person asked about, is not a Kiev, but is a camera that has been completely taken apart, had new parts made for and brought back to the tolerances it should have been to begin with, my version I had, did quite well for me through many years of wedding shooting, in fact to this day, I will put the negs up against both my Mamiyas and my Hassy negs, in addition, depending on the model you get, you can have access to some world class glass that is available for it. The 80mm factory glass for the Kiev is a crap shoot, there are good ones, as well as bad ones out there, but this goes for any camera system..I had a 80mm Hassy lens that was absolute junk, it became a paper weight on my desk it was so bad, so even with the big name cameras, there can be bad stuff.
Like Dave, I too would put 6X6 negatives from the Kiev 88CM, with both German and Russian glass, up against anything one might want to throw at them from the Mamiya, Bronica and Hasselblad firing range. Kiev cameras and glass are not junk, though quality control is an issue. But I have also found quality control to be an issue with most cameras, including Bronica, Mamiay and, my God should I say it, "Hasselblad."
Originally Posted by Satinsnow
Now, if anyone want to really talk performance in a 16X20 print, the Fuji 6X9 cameras with EBC lenses will blow away any competion in 6X6 (Bronica, Mamiya, or Hasselbald). On or off tripod for direct comparison.
Last edited by sanking; 09-14-2005 at 09:25 AM. Click to view previous post history.
I hope I didn't throw in a bone of contention into the discussion - I tend to question any opinions that start with " camera x is complete junk" or "if you want to take pictures, don't get camera x"... And I wouldn't want anyone to think that I am of that opinion of the Kiev products - I merely found through my research, that more "sure - fire" options, if you will, are available. And now that the price is no longer as clear-cut an adventage as it was - especially for someone like myself, it may be wiser to look to an option with fewer question marks. I have no doubt (actually, I have seen many examples first hand) of images produced with Kiev 88's that are far beyond anything I can hope to produce given any camera - and in their own right, world class across the board. And I may be tempted to still consider one, if it came from a reliable source - in all honesty, I have heard just as much or more to the detriment of Bronica gear (as far as relibility and quality conistance is concerned) - and yet I know that hobbyist and professional alike, many swear by them. For many people, like myself, purchase of even a used MF rig is a large outlay of cash in comparison to our "disposible income", and I can certainly sympathise with anyone who wants to get as much for his/her dollar as possible, and perhaps more importantly - as much trouble free use down the road, as possible... I guess what I am trying to say is that a "peeing contest" between proponents of various brands is not really very helpful, is it?
I've never heard anybody complain about the lenses. Sure you can find one with fungus or whatever but then you can find a lemon from anybody. If you really didn't like the lenses nothing stops you from sticking Zeiss Jena or Schiender [I think it was Schiender] lenses on the body. Kiev lenses also tend to be faster then the average MF lens. If you're using the wide open and comparing them against a different lens at F/4 or whatever then it's not apples to apples.
People seem to have a wierd double standard about Kievs. The average Kiev was a pro camera that was hard used. OTOH I doubt many ever got a CLA. My Kiev 6C is I think 35 years old. Before I had it CLA'd it likely had never been touched. Yet it works 100%. How many other hard used camras could handle that? How many western pros would go more then 2 years without a CLA? Without having backup bodies?
I agree, in fact, my favorite wide angle 6x6 lens is an ARSAT 55mm MC PC lens. I should add that I have East German Zeiss MC Flektagons, West German Tstar Zeiss Distagons and a Schneider MC Curtagon for comparison.
Originally Posted by sanking
[/QUOTE]Now, if anyone want to really talk performance in a 16X20 print, the Fuji 6X9 cameras with EBC lenses will blow away any competion in 6X6 (Bronica, Mamiya, or Hasselbald). On or off tripod for direct comparison.
I'm in agreement there as well!
BTW, the 645 EBC Fujinons are no slouch either!
Everything is analog - even digital :D
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And the 55-90 Fujinon EBC zoon on the Fuj 645GA Zi is just fabulous for a vario focus lens. I purchased this camera just a few weeks ago and have been very impressed with the quality of the lens. This is really a very sweet point and shoot camera.
Originally Posted by Tom Hoskinson
How about Bronica?
I'd go with a nice used Bronica system, like a SQ-Ai probably find a used one around $600 if you have a local shop or maybe even less on ebay!
I have a kiev 60 and accessories for sale
I got a Kiev 60 in a lot of camera equipment I bought. Came with an extra lens, seperate metered viewfinder, filters, etc.
I never intended to keep it, but wound up doing so, as it was much more robust and functional than I expected. I had an idea to put a pinhole bodycap on it (I take a lot of pinhole pics) and use it as a nice pinhole camera, in addition to lens camera, but that never came about.
Sadly, now I'm having to clean out my camera collection, if anyone is interested.
Would be a fun camera to experiment in medium format with.
Here is what comes with it:
Kiev 60 Single Lens Reflex complete outfit with meter prism and waist level finders, 80mm 2.8 lens with shade, 2 extension tubes. Everything works perfectly. BONUSES: extra lens for Kiev: 65mm 3.5 Wide Angle works fine and takes excellent pictures; ALSO set of filters with adapter for 80mm lens, including Softener, Dual Mask Set (clear center and black center spot), Graded Purple, Red with clear center, Ambico Action 7724 which has split field of clear and close up areas, Diffusion with clear center, 62mm Circular Polarizer
$165, + whatever it costs to ship
Last edited by JeffD; 09-15-2005 at 06:02 AM. Click to view previous post history.
Kiev 88 from Kiev Camera
I bought one from Kiev Camera in March and have been quite happy with the overall quality of the camera and the service from Kiev. Due to my stupidity, I stripped the gear in the winder. I called to see if it was covered under warranty or what it would cost to get it fixed and they told me to ship it back and I would have a new camera in a week. I shipped it out on a Monday, they received it on Wednesday and on Friday I had a new camera. No fuss, no muss! It only cost me the price of shipping. The biggest factor for me in deciding to go with Kiev was the very reasonable prices for Russian lenses and the ability to upgrade to Zeiss lens when I could afford it. The second biggest factor was their return policy and 1 year warranty. I probably could have waited around patiently and found a used Hassy or Mamiya setup for close to the same money, but I would not have had a warranty and that seemed to be more of a crap shoot than Kiev's reputation for quality control issues.
ialready have a 500cm and a c3
i already ahve a hasselblad and a mamiya, im looking for a battery independent 6x6 with a pentacon six mount. I really want the hartblei 45mm shift tilt lense and they make adapters for mamiya 645 and contax and pentax but they are all 6x4.5 and i want square. i wish i could adapt these lenses to a hasselblad, either a 200 or 2000 series but nobody has done it, i might try later, anybody got a 200 series hassy to donate? thanks for all the replies.