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  1. #31
    Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Side Effects

    Just as a side note, prior to the Yashica almost everything I was doing was with 4x5 either in field camera or monorail. A little bit of slow speed 35mm as well. With the putting together of the RB kit, I find that my total approach to photography is changing. For most work, especially in the field the MF aspect as well as the versatility I am finding with the RB system is eclipsing anything that I ever did with 35 (now gathering dust in a cabinet) as well as the 4x5 (selling off all my field camera stuff). There is always the Toyo monorail for things that are just more appropriate, that which requires the range of movements only to be found in a view camera. Now, the thinking is moving toward 8x10 or even larger for that pursuit....

    Yes, I suspect that I am shamelessly plugging Mamiya. But the value and versatility are great. Look at what sort of kit has been put together for under $1000 (including other backs, magnifiers, screens, and other accessories that are buried in the backpack and are not visible!!!)
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    Last edited by Pragmatist; 06-25-2006 at 12:54 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: the cat suggested a change
    Patrick

    something witty and profound needs to be inserted here...

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist
    Nick, it has a lot to do with making a list of lenses and accessories that are available for the RB series, and then looking at the price in the used market. Every day, I use a program called "Auction Sieve" to filter through a number of different bay auctions.
    .
    Ebay prices are too high. All the Bronica stuff I bought at KEH would have cost more on Ebay. The cheaper Mamiya stuff seems to me to be older [often 30 year old stuff] even then it's not cheaper then the ETRS stuff. Right now KEH has a 135mm PE lens in EX+ condition for $205. A similar vintage Mamiya lens would be the KL line? KEH has a 180mm KL in Bargain for $364. Apples to apples the Bronica stuff sure seems cheaper to me.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    Ebay prices are too high. All the Bronica stuff I bought at KEH would have cost more on Ebay. The cheaper Mamiya stuff seems to me to be older [often 30 year old stuff] even then it's not cheaper then the ETRS stuff. Right now KEH has a 135mm PE lens in EX+ condition for $205. A similar vintage Mamiya lens would be the KL line? KEH has a 180mm KL in Bargain for $364. Apples to apples the Bronica stuff sure seems cheaper to me.

    Not to get into a Wintel vs Mac match, but I would say that the PE lens is no better than the standard Sekor C. I picked up a near mint Sekor 127mm for $110, including shipping and 30 day exchange. 90mm C with Lindahl shade for $100. 65mm C with caps and rubber shade, $165. All excellent plus. Just watched a 65mm K/L close out for $187. It takes a lot of monitoring, and the ability to snipe. Lots of opportunities. KEH may seem like a good deal, is probably very safe to deal with, but hardly has the best prices. Check out Shutterblade, they have a liberal return policy, and are half to two-thirds the price of KEH.

    It all boils down to the look, feel, and expected photographic style one is seeking. All told, the brand likely does not matter as much as the drive that it gives the photographer to make a finer image.
    Patrick

    something witty and profound needs to be inserted here...

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist
    Not to get into a Wintel vs Mac match, but I would say that the PE lens is no better than the standard Sekor C. I picked up a near mint Sekor 127mm for $110, including shipping and 30 day exchange. 90mm C with Lindahl shade for $100. 65mm C with caps and rubber shade, $165. All excellent plus. Just watched a 65mm K/L close out for $187. It takes a lot of monitoring, and the ability to snipe. Lots of opportunities. KEH may seem like a good deal, is probably very safe to deal with, but hardly has the best prices. Check out Shutterblade, they have a liberal return policy, and are half to two-thirds the price of KEH.

    It all boils down to the look, feel, and expected photographic style one is seeking. All told, the brand likely does not matter as much as the drive that it gives the photographer to make a finer image.
    Thanks for the pointer to shutterblade. looks like it'll be a good source for some extras. The RB outfits aren't as affordable as from KEH (or at least not that I've seen) but some things like lenses and whatnot look to be good deals. Hell, I just put a bit on a zoom lens for my 35mm

  5. #35

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    Shutterblade [if it's who I think it is] charges quite a bit to ship to Canada. With KEH I can put together an order and save on the total shipping. I've routinely seen Shutterblade prices once I add in shipping exceed similar to better items from KEH. KEH for me is safe because when they rate something bargain it's closer to many other peoples mint.

    I consider my PE lenses on par with the one RZ lens I have. The 180mm W-N. The RB C lenses are ancient. They still cost more then much newer Bronica lenses. Even if the quality was a wash I feel better getting newer shutters for less money.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    Shutterblade [if it's who I think it is] charges quite a bit to ship to Canada. With KEH I can put together an order and save on the total shipping. I've routinely seen Shutterblade prices once I add in shipping exceed similar to better items from KEH. KEH for me is safe because when they rate something bargain it's closer to many other peoples mint.

    I consider my PE lenses on par with the one RZ lens I have. The 180mm W-N. The RB C lenses are ancient. They still cost more then much newer Bronica lenses. Even if the quality was a wash I feel better getting newer shutters for less money.
    I don't know, the shipping cost didn't look THAT bad. the lens I bid on said the shipping would be 20 bucks US. Considering what SOME places on ebay charge for shipping, that's quite reasonable.

  7. #37
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    Well, you would probably be perfectly happy with a Bronica - many, many people make pictures light years ahead of anything I will ever make with Bronicas. Its just a case of bang for the buck, faultless reliability and unlimited ability to expand your system. The RB has metered prisms - which I would not waste my money on, as I wouldn't on any MF system of this type - it also has motor wind backs available (although the one I saw is 6x8), abiity to shoot any 120 - based format you choose (short of 6x9) and lenses from old to brand new are available, depending on your needs vs budget.
    Example: a ProS body, with a 120 back and WLF and a 90 mm k/l lens for $280, on eBay. All in better than average shape, lens looked pristine. As far as metering goes, I would put my faith in a Pentax spotmeter instead of a battery dependant metering prism anyway.

    For a more short term solution you could try working with a TLR or RF - I know its not your ideal, and yes, they have their limitations, but it may be a nice, sub - $100 way to dip your toes in the MF pool. But given the prices of systems that are precisely what you want, the savings are not that significant and to my way of thinking, you may as well just go for it.

    Peter.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnashings
    Well, you would probably be perfectly happy with a Bronica - many, many people make pictures light years ahead of anything I will ever make with Bronicas. Its just a case of bang for the buck, faultless reliability and unlimited ability to expand your system. The RB has metered prisms - which I would not waste my money on, as I wouldn't on any MF system of this type - it also has motor wind backs available (although the one I saw is 6x8), abiity to shoot any 120 - based format you choose (short of 6x9) and lenses from old to brand new are available, depending on your needs vs budget.
    Example: a ProS body, with a 120 back and WLF and a 90 mm k/l lens for $280, on eBay. All in better than average shape, lens looked pristine. As far as metering goes, I would put my faith in a Pentax spotmeter instead of a battery dependant metering prism anyway.

    For a more short term solution you could try working with a TLR or RF - I know its not your ideal, and yes, they have their limitations, but it may be a nice, sub - $100 way to dip your toes in the MF pool. But given the prices of systems that are precisely what you want, the savings are not that significant and to my way of thinking, you may as well just go for it.

    Peter.
    I've actually been half considering a TLR the last couple days, after seeing that the cost is a bit lower, but I really think I'll keep aiming for the SLR format, simply because that's what I'm used to in 35mm and I've always liked the concept of looking through the lens that actually takes the picture better than having to deal with the offset of a separate viewing lens.

    You mentioned being satisfied with bronicas, then talk about the RB, was that a mix up? or am I confused?

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnashings
    Well, you would probably be perfectly happy with a Bronica - many, many people make pictures light years ahead of anything I will ever make with Bronicas. Its just a case of bang for the buck, faultless reliability and unlimited ability to expand your system. The RB has metered prisms - which I would not waste my money on, as I wouldn't on any MF system of this type - it also has motor wind backs available (although the one I saw is 6x8), abiity to shoot any 120 - based format you choose (short of 6x9) and lenses from old to brand new are available, depending on your needs vs budget.
    Example: a ProS body, with a 120 back and WLF and a 90 mm k/l lens for $280, on eBay. All in better than average shape, lens looked pristine. As far as metering goes, I would put my faith in a Pentax spotmeter instead of a battery dependant metering prism anyway.
    See that doesn't sound cheaper to me. I picked up a mint with full warranty ETRSI from Henry's on Ebay for $400. I could have gotten an older vintage model for even less. Plus the metering prism is great if you want it. The TTL flash is also great. The combination makes fill flash mindless. Or dragging the shutter.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    See that doesn't sound cheaper to me. I picked up a mint with full warranty ETRSI from Henry's on Ebay for $400. I could have gotten an older vintage model for even less. Plus the metering prism is great if you want it. The TTL flash is also great. The combination makes fill flash mindless. Or dragging the shutter.
    OK, lets say its about the same - I would rather spend my money on a RB. But, what you say about flash is very true - you have to do the math yourself on an RB. Again, I can count on the fingers of one hand how often I use flash - so perhaps this was not foremost in my mind, but a very valid point indeed. Of course, if you are thinking of using a studio set up, TTL flash is not much use to you anyway, and a good incident meter will have to be bought anyway.
    This is getting into the "raight camera for ME" rather than "this camera IS better" territory, of course. As with most things, the most help you can be is throw out what you know and hope it helps with a decision. Of course, we all feel a bit strongly about our particular darlings - mine happens to be the RB

    Cheers,

    Peter.

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