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  1. #51
    jd callow's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sean @ Mar 5 2003, 06:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Verbatim has a new disk that is supposed to be as good, and I think mitsubishi makes some gold cd&#39;s too.&nbsp; Anyway, my days of buying the cheapo 50cd spools for important things are over.&nbsp; I have also heard of people pulling out their stored cd&#39;s to find a metal eating bacteria has infested it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    All cd&#39;s are not made the same, but they are burned the same. There is a difference between materials used and their durability and there is also the difference of packaging/ marketing which does not incur greater longevity. Many CD failures (if not most) have more to do with scratched plastic than lost image or deteriorated sub strata.

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  2. #52

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    Actually, CDR material does make a difference. Fuji, Sony & Imation media are the only one&#39;s I have that are still around. The other medias I used (cheaper), including Kodak, TDK, etc. Have all "faded" from existance. I use nothing but Plextor ROMs to do my work. I had a burner back when 1 & 2X were the only things you could get, and at &#036;1000 a piece. The thinner CDR&#39;s, usually can be "seen through" when held to a light. These are the discs that have lost the burn as the foil that is adhered to the top relaxes. There are many programs you can get to check the error rate on a CDR. Try it sometime. You&#39;ll realize that these el-cheapo CDs will go away in about 4 years or so. At the least, bad sectors will show up.

    Yes, this is all with NO USE of the CDs. Sitting in a case, in a 70F temp controlled environment. Plus, Music CDRs are basically rejects from the data line. They have a HIGHER error rate than data discs do. They just sell for more because the public will see the "music" label and think they need special discs for audio recording.

    Try batch burning on TDK or Kypermedia media. About a dozen discs in, the heat from the ROM & sled assembly will cause foil to bubble up a bit. When you test the discs, the disc is unusable. I have about 5 dozen "prime peripheral" discs laying around here that are completely unusable, even in audio mode because the disc foil is so thin you can see through it in a dimmly lit room&#33; Verbatim discs USED to be good, then they cheapened the production. I had 2 discs in a row where the foil popped off the cookie as I pulled it off the spindle. And, Mitsubishi Chemical, type 2 discs are the best lasting discs I&#39;ve used. Fuji discs will sometimes be this medium.

    I&#39;ve got a pile of Kodak "barcode" gold media CD&#39;s laying around that are useless. They lost their burn and I can&#39;t read anything off of them, especially data between the center and edge of the disc. Totally useless. Luckily, these are all discs that I did drive backups to ages ago. And, since I run Ghost batches on my boxes every 3 months, they don&#39;t have to last more than that.

    After 17 years in the computer industry, media is cheap. Floppies are so cheap, even Sony&#39;s, that you&#39;ll get at least one bad disk out of the package&#33; Tape&#39;s are so sensitive now that dropping them can cause data errors. And, IDE hard drives are so cheap, they are expected to fail 14-18 months from the day of activation. I use all SCSI drives and I avoid getting any drive whose density is so high that they try to cram 36GB of data onto 1 or 2 platters. Cheap consumer drives will try to smash 100GB onto 2 platters. Higher end drives will usually have 4 platters to do 72GB or so. Beware of the "consumerizing" of the computer industry&#33;

    Another reason I&#39;ve been transferring all my music to MiniDisc. My old MD&#39;s from 1989 are still working. Hmm. BUT, my FILM from ages ago are still perfectly usable. AND, my fiber prints are looking just as good as the day I printed them.

  3. #53
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (docholliday @ Mar 6 2003, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Actually, CDR material does make a difference. Fuji, Sony & Imation media are the only one&#39;s I have that are still around. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Thanks, Doc.

    I was the one who posted the tear-stained message about losing three CDs.

    This information is valuable. Is it possible to get it in a text file so that I may use it to beat over the heads of a couple of digital freaks who claim that CDs - like diamonds - are "forever" - and that I must be some kind of dolt with inferior equipment to think otherwise?

    Hmmm ... and Copyright submissions are prioritized as CDs first. I wonder how much trouble that will mean down the road.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  4. #54
    jd callow's Avatar
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    I agree that not all media is the same. My point was simply don&#39;t buy it cuz of the packaging and or color of the foil. The CD&#39;s I have that have indured the test of time the best are the old blue tinted TDK&#39;s. But then the newer ones haven&#39;t been around as long so I have ho idea if they&#39;ll be better -- yet.

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  5. #55
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  6. #56
    jd callow's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aggie @ Mar 6 2003, 05:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Wait a minute&#33; CD&#39;s are forever.&nbsp; You just have to use them in a different medium.&nbsp; They make wonderful drink coasters.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    and indoor frisbee golf

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  7. #57

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    Regarding Kodak and MF....

    Remember though that Kodak still makes MOVIE film. If you are making film that wide already, there is no point in not splitting the production line a bit and making some profit. And movie film will not go away for at least 50 years. Now that means we may loose some of our favorite emulsions, but I can&#39;t imagine that we will loose ALL MF anytime soon.

    Official Photo.net Villain
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    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]DaVinci never wrote an artist's statement...[/FONT]

  8. #58

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    Robert,
    I was under the impression that conventional movie film is 35 mm and that the more specialized and limited Imax format is 70 mm which is the equivalent of medium format. Is my memory correct or am I wrong?
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  9. #59

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    CDs are good drink coasters, like Agiie said. They are great targets for shooting practice, and for any amateur astronomers, they probably make good bearing surfaces for "do it yourself" mounts.

  10. #60

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    A friend of mine took 300 AOL cd&#39;s and made a mobile from it. Then, he hung it from the ceiling fan stud (he dropped the fan years ago) in a house with 20 foot cathedral ceilings and it almost touched the ground. It was the most hilarious christmas tree we&#39;d seen.

    Then, when it got warm, we took the mobile, hung it from a tree, and target practiced at each individual cd until we cut them all down. With an SKS of all things. That was hilarious.

    For testing CDR&#39;s, Nero (the newer versions) come with a program called InfoTool, which will tell you the type of media. If you have a Plextor rom or burner, the Plextor program will do the same.

    The worst burning program lately is Roxio&#39;s Cheezy CD-Creamator/Easy Coaster-Creator. More weak burns than any other program. The BLER (BLock Error Rate) is usually very high with cheap burners on any media. And, the higher speed the media is rated, usually, the worse it is. I tested this myself after reading the following website: http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/archive/...aerrorrates.cfm
    The program I&#39;m using is an old program called CDRTest. It&#39;s too bad it&#39;s no longer around.

    If you use Blindwrite/BlindRead, they have a utility included called BWA Builder. It displays the physical linear density of a cd, read multiple times from the center to the edge. It can take a while to complete, but it is a nice graphic display to show the quality of a burn. I use it against my CDRTest and the results usually concur. Get BlindWrite Suite and try it for yourself&#33; A lot of CD pirates use the BWA to make exact copies of CD&#39;s, because some protection schemes actually look for the "proper" density of pressed medium to determine if it is a real disc or fake disc. But, the BWA can be used to determine the "quality" of a disc also.

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