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  1. #21
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    My father took something apart (I forget what) which had a lot of tiny screws. When he was ready to put it together again he decide to clear an area of his workbench and in doing so swept all of the screws onto the floor. This was followed by several hours of retrieving screws from the carpet. Don't do this!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  2. #22
    winger's Avatar
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    Some great advice - thanks all! I'll let you know how it ends!

  3. #23
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
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    I have a styrofoam meat tray - you know, the white or yellow ones that chicken parts come in from the grocery store, that I use as a work tray. Little parts seldom escape and screws can be push into the foam to stay put - in the order (left to right for me) that they are removed. This often removes the question, "Which one of these little beggars goes in first?"

  4. #24
    winger's Avatar
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    OK, the outer retaining ring (with the focus distances on it) came off easily enough. I still haven't managed to loosen the lens at all. To take it out of the shutter, do I need to undo the apparent retaining ring? There are slots in a ring that look like a spanner wrench would work on them (both inside and out - see photos). Do I undo those?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails agfa-inner ring.jpg   agfa-outer ring.jpg  

  5. #25
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
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    The retaining ring inside will drop the entire shutter out for you - useful if you need to give the thing a bath in solvent, The arrow pointing in the other shot is a somewhat enigmatic to me... I don't get what it's really pointing at as it appears that no spanner wrench could realistically get around the top of the cell and down to a ring in that position. The removal of the front cell is what is giving you the problem in the first place. In order to get it off, you have to be able to unscrew it, just as you do when you focus, only more so. There should be a small pin extending out from the side of the front cell that hits a stop pin coming up from the surface of the shutter. That's the infinity stop. You have to unscrew past it, so remove that pin and save it.

    I'd undo the rear retainer (your bellows will back off the front standard - don't worry) and have the shutter and lens separate from the camera body in order to do any more work on it. Then try the various methods described above.

  6. #26
    winger's Avatar
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    Thanks Whitey! Yeah, I figure I can get at it (and soak it) easier if it's off the camera. I've wiped most of the green goo off from the lens, but no movement so far. I think it needs to soak. The infinity stop is on the ring that came off first, so there isn't anything but goo and age keeping it from moving.

  7. #27
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
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    Soaking worked only marginally for me. I would pay heed to the other posts that suggested heat.

  8. #28

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    I have taken apart a couple exactly the same lenses. The black screw in your second picture only keeps the larger scalloped retainer from turning. If you moved the black screw to clear the scallops, then the scalloped ring should turn off with only a little force applied. However, you only need to do that to open the shutter; if the shutter is working okay, then don't open it.

    You should remove the lens from the standard by taking off the outer retainer ring in the back (your first image above). If you do not have a lens wrench, you can use the points on a dial caliper, or the points on a drawing compass. Sometimes you can use a small flat blade screwdriver, and simply push the retainer to spin it off.

    Get some soft rubber erasers, a brayer pad, or a pad of Sorbothane rubber to use as a grip surface. Place the complete shutter/lens unit in the palm of your hand, and then apply steady pressure with the lens pushed onto your rubber pad, while turning the assembly, and the lens should come off. It helps to have the rubber pad on a grippy surface where it will not spin. If you are trying this with large soft erasers, then you put the eraser in one palm, and the lens/shutter assembly into the other, and press together while turning.

    The slot in the rear element can be bridged with a kitchen knife or similar (ruler, thick feeler gauge, etc). Using that, you should be able to remove the rear element from the shutter housing easily. Sometimes it simply comes off like the front elements by turning it against a rubber pad, but not always. There should be a small retaining part on the inside of the rear element holder; you can use a very small screwdriver to carefully spin off that part, and then you can clean the optics completely. Be sure to note the orientation of the element, since it will need to go back in the same orientation in order to focus properly.

    If the front group comes off in one piece, then that means the frozen focus is causing the front two elements to stick together. The arrow you show in your second shot is simply the top of the middle element of the lens assembly. If the front element actually came off by itself, then you would see the top of the middle element, at it would appear as a slot across the top, much like the rear element. When you re-assemble all this, that slot provides a torque location to tighten the middle element housing into the shutter, since you do not want it to turn. This middle element housing threads into the shutter.

    Most likely the front two elements will come off in one piece, meaning that the first and second element have stuck together. Then it can be tougher to get them apart, though the previously mentioned techniques of solvents, heat, and gentle force should eventually allow them to spin apart. Resist and urge to use pliers, vices, or metal grippers, since those will warp and damage these small optics holders (they will likely go out of round, or worse case you will crack the optics).

    Infinity stop is actually handled by the outside distance scale ring (the part with the three really small retaining screws). When it comes time to set up your infinity focus, you do that without the distance scale in place, only turning the front optic. Then you place the distance scale loosely onto the front housing, and gently turn it until it bumps against the infinity stop, and last you tighten the three retaining screws. It is recommended that you check the focus at two closer distances too, which will confirm that everything is where it should be located.

    As to why bother with all this effort for a triplet lens: http://www.gordonmoat.com/automotive_03.html and http://www.gordonmoat.com/transportation_05.html These were shot with a similar lens to that you are restoring. The results can be quite good, even on colour transparency film.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography

  9. #29
    winger's Avatar
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    Thank you ALL for great help. Gordon, that was a big help. I might need to do some more adjusting on the focus (or practice on guessing distances) and I obviously missed a light leak or two, but:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imgb126-gb-sm.jpg   imgb123-weeds-sm.jpg  

  10. #30

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    You've invented the folding Holga!

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