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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by olleorama View Post
    A question to add to the confusion: in a studio setting, like on a tabletop, if I use reflective metering really close to the subject, pointing directly towards the part of the subject I wanna expose according to, can that reading be used and placed in the zone system? (provided I know what area I'm measuring..)

    E.g;

    [refer to the attached pic] I meter the tailpiece really close and the meter gives me a reading of EV 8, I place it in zone III, the upper bout gives me a reading of EV 10, which then will fall in zone V which is consistent what what I have visualized.

    Will this work with an ordinary reflective meter or do I have to have a spot to this metering? Does the metering at close range get influenced by light fall off etc.?
    Yes.

    In this studio setting, you are able to use your wide area reflective meter just like a spot meter as long as you are able to get close enough to meter a specific area. So, "placing" the tail piece on zone III and then reading the upper section to see where it "falls" in relation to it, is the ZS procedure to use. Then development would be decided by where that highlight falls, if you wanted the Zone V reading to be higher in final print value, then you could try an N+1 development, or some percentage of time increase in development.
    Last edited by CPorter; 02-14-2010 at 09:55 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by olleorama View Post
    A question to add to the confusion: in a studio setting, like on a tabletop, if I use reflective metering really close to the subject, pointing directly towards the part of the subject I wanna expose according to, can that reading be used and placed in the zone system? (provided I know what area I'm measuring..)
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by olleorama View Post
    Will this work with an ordinary reflective meter or do I have to have a spot to this metering? Does the metering at close range get influenced by light fall off etc.?
    To do what you are asking a spot meter is required.

    A more typical use of the incident meter is to meter for each light separately.

    Main light, by itself, will be turned on and metered, the the same for the fill light. The ratio (right to left) controls how flat or dramatic the shadows are. These are some I found on Flickr, this http://www.flickr.com/photos/hansreitzema/2678708663/ is an example of flat, equality right to left. This http://www.flickr.com/photos/hansrei...7604200914669/ is an example of dramatic, inequality right to left.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPorter View Post
    Yes.

    In this studio setting, you are able to use your wide area reflective meter just like a spot meter. So, "placing" the tail piece on zone III and then reading the upper section to see where it "falls" in relation to it, is the ZS procedure to use. Then development would be decided by where that highlight falls, if you wanted the Zone V reading to be higher in final print value, then you could try an N+1 development, or some percentage of time increase in development.
    I agree with CPorter. You can use a wide area meter the same as a spot meter.
    Because of the wide receptor you will have to be a little more careful in taking your reading.
    A spot meter would make life a little easier when you measure something as small as the tailpiece though.

    CP. See I can be cooperative Spot meters are Very useful tools.
    Heavily sedated for your protection.

  4. #124
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    Ok, so now we have two conflicting opinions. 2 vs 1 though.

  5. #125
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    It's only applicable IMO if you can get close enough to meter just the area you desire, it can be a reasonable simulation. It certainly does not take the place of a spot meter. The spot meter has the great advantage of being able to read small areas from the camera position.

  6. #126
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    It seems that the 30deg. field for my meter would be narrowed the closer I got to the subject? So "it seems" that if I get very close and take the reading it is primarily reading just the area in front of the sensor. Of course I would have to be careful not to block any of the light.
    My idea may be totally wrong.....
    "Generalizations are made because they are generally true"
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    Barry
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by stradibarrius View Post
    Here are 4 shots off the same roll with my RB. Neopan 400 in XTOL 1:1
    neg scans.

    First two are reflective the second two are incident. I am not sure that I can really see a lot of difference????
    IMO, if you really want try and see a difference between the two meters, you should photograph the same scene with each, not different scenes. It makes for easier analysis of the negative as long as they are both developed the same.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPorter View Post
    It's only applicable IMO if you can get close enough to meter just the area you desire, it can be a reasonable simulation.
    This is the issue. If you get close enough to meter just the neck of a violin with an incident meter, the meter's shadow is probably affecting the reading, if the shadow isn't in the way the meter head is probably tilted such that the reading would be goofy anyway.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #129
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    It seems that the 30deg. field for my meter would be narrowed the closer I got to the subject? So "it seems" that if I get very close and take the reading it is primarily reading just the area in front of the sensor. Of course I would have to be careful not to block any of the light.
    My idea may be totally wrong.....
    Not wrong at all.

  10. #130

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    The above are correct... a wide view reflective meter measuring the entire scene in that situation will likely overexpose the violin. Moving in close to read only the violin will only give you a reading for the entire object.... maybe you can estimate where you want exposure but it won't give you an accurate contrast range even if you move in very close to read small areas. You also risk affecting the light with your physical presence near the object. An incident meter will get you close enough for a printable neg but it can't tell you how to adjust film development for contrast control. Too, watch out for your presence affecting the light hitting the meter dome.

    Spot Meter: How dark is the part of the violin to want to meter and do you actually want that tone to appear as middle gray on print? Are there darker areas that will lose detail if you use that exposure? How do you think the client sees his/her beloved violin? It may be an emotional thing to them. Do they want it darker showing its age and "character" or do they want its beauty to shine through and glow. Side note: Set your lighting to produce the affect they want. Is the metered area reflecting any specular light? A violin probably is so keep that in mind. I'll say for the millionth time... see the scene, in this case the object, as a whole. Find the darkest important shadow area and meter there, decrease exposure to place that tone at Zone 2 or 3 or 2.5.... wherever you think it belongs. Then meter the brightest area for which you want to retain a least some detail.... everything brighter is specular reflection. Adjust development to place that tone at Zone 7 or 8 or 9 or 8.5... whatever... depends on your processing/printing techniques and quality of the materials you use.

    Of course, you could do a low-key image against black or a high-key image on white.
    Last edited by Mike1234; 02-14-2010 at 12:14 PM. Click to view previous post history.



 

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