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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    To make a long story short: you can't have infinite DOF and sharpness at the same time.
    You must mean that you can't have extremely wide DOF and maximum sharpness at the same time. You can most certainly have sharpness with wide DOF.

    IMHO, there are many cases (in fact, almost every case in which deep DOF is desired) in which having deep DOF trumps having the maximum sharpness from ones lens. The sharpness that my lens can render being blunted by diffraction is one of the least of my worries when shooting. As long as I know that my lens is inherently a sharp lens, I know that it will be "good enough" for me at any aperture, and that DOF is a far more important aesthetic "worry."

    With a camera that allows you to orient the plane of critical focus, you can most certainly have extensive front to back focus in an image, and maximum sharpness (or close to it) from ones lens.

    Here is the online article on the matter that I like best: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/focus.htm.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 08-08-2010 at 05:54 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #12
    Holly's Avatar
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    So:
    I will give this all a test run on polaroid soon, but is the general consensus here that there's no
    point in using MLU, and I may as well just press the shutter button with a black thing over lens,
    then drop it away, and put it back over just before I switch T-N at the end?
    All I want is like....an insane amount of sharpness in the final image. Given that it's at night,
    and there will be fixed points of light in it, if I follow those steps the shake will be so minimal as not to
    matter?
    Thanks for all the technical support guys
    I'll give it all a whirl.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    So:
    I will give this all a test run on polaroid soon, but is the general consensus here that there's no
    point in using MLU, and I may as well just press the shutter button with a black thing over lens,
    then drop it away, and put it back over just before I switch T-N at the end?
    All I want is like....an insane amount of sharpness in the final image. Given that it's at night,
    and there will be fixed points of light in it, if I follow those steps the shake will be so minimal as not to
    matter?
    Thanks for all the technical support guys
    I'll give it all a whirl.
    For what you want, I would use Fuji Neopan 100 Acros or Kodak T-Max 100. Not only are they sharp as all get out, but they are very easy with which to figure long exposures, due to their excellent maintenance of reciprocity. With many other films, you'd have to do a fair amount of experimentation to find out how they behave in long exposures, and you would also have to spend a lot more of your precious time twiddling your thumbs waiting for the film to expose.

    If I wanted what you wanted, I would also probably use T-max developer to push the outstanding sharpness of the film to the max. There is nothing quite like T-Max film in T-Max developer. It gives a unique (though definitely "modern") look IMHO. It really does the film justice.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #14
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    I will give this all a test run on polaroid soon, but is the general consensus here that there's no point in using MLU, and I may as well just press the shutter button with a black thing over lens, then drop it away, and put it back over just before I switch T-N at the end?
    That will work fine but even that is not essential for the ten minute exposure as you mentioned in your original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    All I want is like....an insane amount of sharpness in the final image. Given that it's at night, and there will be fixed points of light in it, if I follow those steps the shake will be so minimal as not to matter?
    For exposures like this, I would be more worried about the sturdiness of the tripod and and road induced vibration causing movement than looking to the mirror for the problem.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  5. #15
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    ^^Exactly^^
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #16
    Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    For what you want, I would use Fuji Neopan 100 Acros or Kodak T-Max 100. Not only are they sharp as all get out, but they are very easy with which to figure long exposures, due to their excellent maintenance of reciprocity.
    Hmm, going to be shooting in colour though...any suggestions for suitable film in colour? I'm thinking of
    a tungsten slide of some sort, but usually use Fuji 160C.
    I am slightly lazy when it comes to figuring out reciprocity and things like that..is this something I'd need
    to be hyper aware of with long night exposures?

  7. #17
    Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    That will work fine but even that is not essential for the ten minute exposure as you mentioned in your original post.

    For exposures like this, I would be more worried about the sturdiness of the tripod and and road induced vibration causing movement than looking to the mirror for the problem.
    So just point and fire you think? And make sure I bolt the tripod down pretty good?

    I'm just thinking that that big old mirror will go clunk and kill the shot, so I'll probably be doing the
    black-cover-up trick anyway, but I don't have a fabulously new and sturdy tripod so you're right, if anything
    is going to make the image sharper it's the tripod situation. I will take sandbags.

    I'm hoping to shoot at a time when there is not a lot of traffic or vibration around, if it's not too
    cold, so that might not be a big problem.

  8. #18
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd mention - with the new display settings since the APUG upgrade, some thread titles don't display fully (they are truncated) on my monitor.

    This one is kind of entertaining:

    "Can you use mirror lock-up on RZ II when doing time"

    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #19
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    I'm just thinking that that big old mirror will go clunk and kill the shot
    For a long exposure the mirror movement not going to make any noticeable difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    I don't have a fabulously new and sturdy tripod so you're right, if anything
    is going to make the image sharper it's the tripod situation. I will take sandbags.

    I'm hoping to shoot at a time when there is not a lot of traffic or vibration around, if it's not too
    cold, so that might not be a big problem.
    Wind may also cause the camera to vibrate if the tripod is not sturdy enough. Sometimes a heavy weight hung from the centre column can help.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    Hmm, going to be shooting in colour though...any suggestions for suitable film in colour? I'm thinking of
    a tungsten slide of some sort, but usually use Fuji 160C.
    I am slightly lazy when it comes to figuring out reciprocity and things like that..is this something I'd need
    to be hyper aware of with long night exposures?
    If you can get a hold of some Kodak Portra 100T or Fuji NPL (both color negative films), I'd try that. If not, Fuji T64 or Kodak 64T (both transparency films).

    All four of these films are discontinued; the two transparency ones more recently.

    IME, the things to be most aware of in night exposures are high contrast compositions and reciprocity failure of your film. Many night shots are very high in contrast (with lamps or windows in the picture being much, much brighter than the things they are illuminating), and you have to be careful with exposure. The four films I mentioned help with both reciprocity and color balance.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 08-22-2010 at 12:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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