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Thread: "cheap" SLR

  1. #21
    Jon Shiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luseboy View Post
    An slr image will be reversed too... unless you have a prism finder. Or unless my bronica is just wierd. But on my camera, with the chimney or wl finders, the image is reversed... I don't have a prism finder though.
    I acctually find that tlr's, or at least my yashica is easiest to shoot at eye level with the built in magnifier out. That's how I always shoot it.
    Good point about the magnifier, much easier to focus that way also. But that "eye level" is probably about a foot lower than prism/slr shooting, due to bending over to look in the magnifier and the lower lens on the TLR. Also, there is quite a bit of framing inaccuracy with a TLR due to parallax error, especially with close-ups.

    Jon
    Mendocino Coast Black and White Photography: www.jonshiu.com

  2. #22
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Shiu View Post
    Keep in mind TLR is not as easy to use as SLR. The image is reversed left-right and may be difficult to see and focus when the sun is shining on the screen. Also, since it is a square, it will be more difficult to frame your rectangle picture. It is mostly a waist level camera, and not easy to shoot at eye level, or straight down.

    If you have $250 to spend I would recommend Mamiya 645E SLR w/80mm lens. Very easy to use and to see with.

    Jon
    I'd simply say it's different. Not harder or easier.

    Cameras with waist level finders, TLRs, RB67s... provide other advantages.

    They are perfectly positioned for full length portraiture, they are much better suited to shots where a low perspective is wanted like flowers and kid photos.

    I took a bunch of shots at a bike race yesterday with my RbB67 and I got to point the camera up a bit (better view of the faces of the riders) with it on a monopod a little lower than my waist. I got to stand comfortably. If I had been using my prism finder I would have been on my knees or my butt on the asphalt.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #23
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Shiu View Post
    Keep in mind TLR is not as easy to use as SLR. The image is reversed left-right and may be difficult to see and focus when the sun is shining on the screen. Also, since it is a square, it will be more difficult to frame your rectangle picture. It is mostly a waist level camera, and not easy to shoot at eye level, or straight down.

    If you have $250 to spend I would recommend Mamiya 645E SLR w/80mm lens. Very easy to use and to see with.

    Jon
    Nah. not at all. As someone else pointed out the reversal is due to the waist level finder not the TLR design An SLR with a WLF will also be reversed while a TLR with a prism (Mamiya made a prism finder for their TLRs and they seem to be pretty common) will not. The comment about "your rectangle picture" is bizarre. Who says your photo has to be a rectangle? Since getting my Yashica Mat I find I'm really liking the square format and it seems to fit a lot if my photos. When it doesn't I can visualize cropping to a rectangle easily. I find the WLF and ground glass a real benefit to composition as compared to my 35mm SLRs. The same is true to even larger degree with the inverted image on the GG of my 4x5 but that's another discussion.

  4. #24

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    I'd look at Mamiya 645, Bronica ETR, and Bronica SQ systems. I'd give the advantage to the SQ system, for the square format and flash synch capability.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  5. #25
    Jon Shiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Nah. not at all. As someone else pointed out the reversal is due to the waist level finder not the TLR design An SLR with a WLF will also be reversed while a TLR with a prism (Mamiya made a prism finder for their TLRs and they seem to be pretty common) will not. The comment about "your rectangle picture" is bizarre. Who says your photo has to be a rectangle? Since getting my Yashica Mat I find I'm really liking the square format and it seems to fit a lot if my photos. When it doesn't I can visualize cropping to a rectangle easily. I find the WLF and ground glass a real benefit to composition as compared to my 35mm SLRs. The same is true to even larger degree with the inverted image on the GG of my 4x5 but that's another discussion.
    Um, the original poster indicated a preference for rectangle, see post #6. You rarely see a prism on a TLR, whereas most 645 SLR's have em. Not saying TLR is bad, but it does have some limitations.

    Jon
    Mendocino Coast Black and White Photography: www.jonshiu.com

  6. #26

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    Most medium format SLRs can be used with whatever kind of finder the user wants. I like having both main kinds (WLF and prism), personally. I use a prism on my Rollei 100 percent of the time, and on my Mamiya C series TLRs every now and then. (I prefer the chimney 3.5/6x magnifier most of the time.) With 645, I prefer prisms, because verticals are nearly impossible for me with a WLF on a rectangular frame. However, I do use my Mamiya 645 WLF quite often, especially when shooting horizontals on a tripod.

    But, my point is to not let the finders that people commonly associate with a certain type of cameras sway your decision. Most medium format SLRs can be used with whatever finder you prefer.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  7. #27

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    What I'm looking for is a SLR/TLR that can take pictures with the sharpness of these: http://www.flickriver.com/groups/ric...l/interesting/
    Preferably rectangular pictures (I've been told cropping 6x6 is not an option, then i should just get a 35mm SLR).

    I don't know about the price. Is $200 too much limitation?

    In all honesty, I really doubt I will ever enlarge the pictures to more than 20" x equivalent". Should I just get a 35mm SLR then? Or am I compromising on the sharpness of the photo when enlarging them that much (in that case: to what degree can I enlarge 35mm TMAX without compromising on the image quality?)?


    Thanks in advance! I'm really glad to have come by such a helpful community.

  8. #28
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that by referring to "live viewing" the OP is wondering whether a TLR's viewing system gives a "what you see is what you get" result.

    Of course the answer is "not quite".

    The three major differences are:

    1) due to the fact that the viewing lens is at a slightly different location than the taking lens, the framing and angle of view are slightly different. This is generally only a problem for close work, and there are work-arounds;
    2) most TLRs are used mainly with waist-level finders ("WLF"). With a WLF, the image is reversed. One soon becomes accustomed to the reversal, although it takes a fair amount of practice to become sufficiently accustomed to be able to shoot fast moving action. In the medium format world, quite a few SLRs offer WLFs as an option, and when used with a WLF, those SLRs have the same issues. Some TLRs (Mamiya, Rollieflex) offer a prism finder as an option (see attached photo). With a prism finder the image is not laterally reversed; and
    3) if the OP is used to checking how the depth of field varies with aperture, to my knowledge there is just one TLR lens that offers that facility - one of the 105mm lenses designed for the Mamiya C series TLRs.

    The photo below shows a Mamiya TLR (a C330) with a moderate telephoto and a prism finder. The Mamiya C series TLRs are the only ones that offer interchangeable lenses. They are larger and heavier than fixed lens TLRs.

    I've had my C330 since the mid 1970s. I also have and use 645 SLRs and 6x7 SLRs and 6x6 folders.

    Hope this helps.

    EDIT: 6x6 is cropped all the time!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 47f-2011-05-12.jpg  
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #29

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    You want blurry edges? Look for a Yashica-D with a Yashikor lens, and shoot wide open.

    Or learn some tricks in the darkroom. Remember, what you see from a Holga isn't unique. People have been doing such effects since the beginning of photography. Sometimes the lens, sometimes in the shooting, darkroom, etc. If you have a sharp original, making it blurry isn't hard. Going the other way- blurry to sharp- is another story.

    If you want a DSLR-type viewing experience. get a Bronica ETR(Si) and a prism finder.

  10. #30

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    .

    From what the OP asks in his/hers original question.
    If you want to keep shooting 120 film, your least expensive camera would be a TLR or a rangefinder type medium format camera. These cameras can be found from $20 on up, depending on brand, lens, and condition.
    I recently purchased a Rolleiflex TLR with a 75mm Zeiss taking lens, for $45.
    I also picked up a neat Moscow rangefinder folder with a Tessar style lens, for $50. This camera uses 120 film, but the negative is 6X9cm. In the Rolleiflex, I installed a Rolleikin kit to shoot 35mm film. Both these cameras are from the early '50s.
    In your original post, you mention that you would most likely not make a print larger than an A4 size paper, and were questioning if 135 film could make such an enlargement. The answer is yes it can. I have made 16X20 size prints from Tri-X 35mm negatives. A4 is close to 8X10 size printing paper and you would have no problem making a print that size, while using TMAX film.

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