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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Pain-MD View Post
    If you want to shoot 6x6 handheld, then TLRs are the answer! Yes, they're pretty different from an SLR and they take some getting used to, but once you do it's the greatest shooting experience. Like you, I shot mostly with my Nikon FE for a little while before jumping into the MF game. I first shot with a borrowed Mamiya C-220, then got my own C-33. After a short time, I grew to love the TLR and had tons of fun shooting. I did dislike the bulk of the Mamiya and sold it, now I own a Yashica Mat and a Rolleicord and I couldn't be happier. I seriously urge you to look into a TLR if you want a portable 6x6 camera to shoot handheld stuff (as long as you don't need macro or something like that).
    I won't argue the merits of a good TLR for hand held photography and loved my Mamiya TLR's(long gone now), but I still love my Rollei's and my mint Yashica 124G. The Mamyia cameras are first rate systems cameras with more accessories than you can shake a stick at and would be the way to go if you want 6x6 at an affordable price point. I can't recommend a Yashica or Rolleicord or any TLR that doesn't allow you to use a prism finder/eye level type finder. The reason? I have looked at your attached link and the style of shooting you do. A TLR camera with waist level (looking down and backward)finder would drive you crazy. If you were trying to take a picture of one of your friends on his skateboard or bike while looking down into the waist level finder he would be going backward and you'll want to pan in the opposite direction. Now, if you take that same TLR camera and put a prism finder on it it will let you view just like your Nikon FE. The Mamiya cameras let you put a prism on them and a grip, but the others don't. The later Rollei cameras do, but you're talking very big dollars to buy a late Rollei with that capability. You can get a good C33 or C330 for a good price on the big auction site, but the additional prism will cost you. It might even be as much as the camera itself. Of course, if your not really worried about cosmetics you'll pay much less. You'll also have to go to a small hand-held meter to go with the camera, but this isn't a big deal for your type of shooting. Just meter the scene and set the camera. Change scenes and meter again for the setting. You really dont' have to meter every shot unless you change scenes or lighting. Still, I think the Mamiya M645 1000S with the CDS prism, winder or sports finder would be ideal for your type of shooting. The 645 is a pretty good jump over 35mm and if you're printing out to even 8x10 you'll be cropping your 6x6 shot to 645 anyway. So, just shoot the 645 for what composition you want and print full 8x10 or whatever. Just my opinion of course! JohnW
    Last edited by John Wiegerink; 08-06-2011 at 11:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pupfish View Post
    The FE was the replacement for the budget Nikkormat line. It had Aperture Priority AE and match needle, a 1/125 flash sync (which was pretty fast in its day). I don't recall that it had spot metering or Advanced Multi-Pattern or TTL flash metering.

    Most any medium format camera with an AE prism from the past 3 decades will have greater sophistication. Caveat being all but the Contax will have a slower flash sync when used with non-leaf shutter lenses. If that's important to you, leaf shutter lenses of any brand flash sync at all available speeds. But later Bronicas (SQs, ETRSi) also have OTF/TTL flash metering (even w/o AE prisms) and leaf shutters in all their lenses (503 CX Hassies also feature this, I think? But I mention the Broni because the bare bodies and lenses are almost being given away. Broni metering prisms are expensive, however).

    I got into MF several years ago (following several decades of 135 format use exclusively) with a Pentax 645N and a manual focus SMC-A 35mm f/3.5. This particular lens was the reason for my format jump and for which brand I chose. The particular niche that MF fills for me is less distorting ultrawide angle views. So this is the only MF lens I've got; it's worthy of legendary status. I don't need to make MF do it all as I have other formats that cover the other niches better, at least this is so for me. The Pentax 645N is extraordinarily ergonomic in use, has a simple yet elegant interface, and is one of the most transparent-to-the-picture-taking-process cameras imaginable. Mirror lockup is not needed as the mirror is extremely well damped so if you decide to go this route, you can safely ignore the P645NII at double the price.
    Yup, the Pentax 645N is another very good suggestion and maybe the best one yet for you. Of course it's 645, but what's not to like. Great build, ease of use and most of all? Great optics! This is a very good suggestion by the way. JohnW

  3. #23
    Jaime Marin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Jaime,

    Why do you want to change?

    And

    What are "the defects/problems" you have found with your 35mm results that you are trying to fix?
    I dont quite have a problem with my FE I love it and it does exactly what I want it to do. However I like how much of the surrounding environment and I guess "full frame" that the Medium Format can capture. Plus the quality is much higher. Im currently looking at the Yashica-Mat 124g since it has a light meter but I might have to buy a hand held light meter because I dont know how accurate that could be.

  4. #24
    Jaime Marin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wiegerink View Post
    I won't argue the merits of a good TLR for hand held photography and loved my Mamiya TLR's(long gone now), but I still love my Rollei's and my mint Yashica 124G. The Mamyia cameras are first rate systems cameras with more accessories than you can shake a stick at and would be the way to go if you want 6x6 at an affordable price point. I can't recommend a Yashica or Rolleicord or any TLR that doesn't allow you to use a prism finder/eye level type finder. The reason? I have looked at your attached link and the style of shooting you do. A TLR camera with waist level (looking down and backward)finder would drive you crazy. If you were trying to take a picture of one of your friends on his skateboard or bike while looking down into the waist level finder he would be going backward and you'll want to pan in the opposite direction. Now, if you take that same TLR camera and put a prism finder on it it will let you view just like your Nikon FE. The Mamiya cameras let you put a prism on them and a grip, but the others don't. The later Rollei cameras do, but you're talking very big dollars to buy a late Rollei with that capability. You can get a good C33 or C330 for a good price on the big auction site, but the additional prism will cost you. It might even be as much as the camera itself. Of course, if your not really worried about cosmetics you'll pay much less. You'll also have to go to a small hand-held meter to go with the camera, but this isn't a big deal for your type of shooting. Just meter the scene and set the camera. Change scenes and meter again for the setting. You really dont' have to meter every shot unless you change scenes or lighting. Still, I think the Mamiya M645 1000S with the CDS prism, winder or sports finder would be ideal for your type of shooting. The 645 is a pretty good jump over 35mm and if you're printing out to even 8x10 you'll be cropping your 6x6 shot to 645 anyway. So, just shoot the 645 for what composition you want and print full 8x10 or whatever. Just my opinion of course! JohnW
    Dang really? Yeah it would definitly drive me crazy viewing everything backwards. So i guess the Yashica mat wouldnt be the best choice. Ill look into C33 and C330. What does the prism do exactly it. It just makes the viewing normal?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    Dang really? Yeah it would definitly drive me crazy viewing everything backwards. So i guess the Yashica mat wouldnt be the best choice. Ill look into C33 and C330. What does the prism do exactly it. It just makes the viewing normal?
    Yes, the prism would make the viewing normal just like your Nikon FE. Don't rule out the Yashica as it can work for you, but not as easy as a prism finder. The Yashica has a built-in sports finder and when you use it you are viewing at eye level. Here's how to use the eye-level sports-finder. First, you either focus with the waist level finder to get accurate focus or just use the scale on the focus knob to guess focus(you can get very good at this), then you push the center in on the front view hood and view at eye level through the little black square in the back. Very easy and works perfect. The meters on the Yashica 124G's are very accurate, but require the non-existent mercury 1.3V batteries. You can get 1.5V replacement batteries that will work, but your meter will read a little off. To cure that you can take a meter reading with your FE of a grey wall and remember the ASA/ISO(set to your normal film speed), f-stop and shutter speed(write it down). Then take the Yashica and set the shutter speed the same and the f-stop the same as the FE was. Now, turn the ASA dial on the Yashica so that the meter needle reads in the middle of the indicator circle. Look at the "new" ASA/ISO setting on the Yashica's dial and that's your "new" setting for that film with the 1.5V battery and it's also now calibrated to your FE. You might have to tweak it a little one way or the other, but probably not much. One bit of advice on the Yashica cameras with the wid cranks on the side(Yashica 12's 24's, 124's and 124G's) is that the wind mechanisms aren't super heavy duty so don't wind them like some damn press photographer, but rather slowly and evenly and they'll last along time. Do a search for Yashica 124G manual and butkus will come up. He has an online manual you can view to give you some idea of what I'm talking about. JohnW

  6. #26
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    First, please understand that my Mamiya RB 67 is my favorite camera and that my Holga is a constant companion. I love MF.

    Now let's break down what you just told us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    I dont quite have a problem with my FE I love it and it does exactly what I want it to do.
    So basically you have a tool that works well. I like my FE too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    However I like how much of the surrounding environment and I guess "full frame" that the Medium Format can capture.
    It isn't the frame size by itself that determines the angle of view. The FE can do the effect you are asking for here just by using a "wider angle" shorter focal length lens. If you are using a 50mm lens now, just go to maybe a 35mm lens.

    The "normal" lens you find on a TLR is about 80mm which has a slightly wider view than the "normal" lens on an FE, a 50mm, but not as wide as a 35mm lens or a 28 or a 20 that you can put on your FE.

    The FE can actually get a much wider perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    Plus the quality is much higher.
    Yes, without question, medium format film has the potential to catch much more detail which allows for bigger enlargements. But MF cameras are more work and harder to handle and slower to wind and slower to focus.

    So to figure out if that extra hassle is worth it we need to know;

    How big are the prints that you make?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    Im currently looking at the Yashica-Mat 124g since it has a light meter but I might have to buy a hand held light meter because I dont know how accurate that could be.
    Personally, even if you stay with 35mm I'd suggest you get a handheld meter.

    More than ANY other tool I have ever bought my Sekonik L-358 meter has improved my work.

    A good incident meter is a must have in my book.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #27
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    @DRPAIN

    IS the TLR systems you recommended pretty handheld. Or could I get like a "Grip" for it or is it better to just hold from beneath and work that way. Also Im assuming you can put a strap to hold it from your neck for support right? Sorry im super new to this so those are pretty basic questions i know. Also do they just have a fixed lens or are there other lens's that you could add on. I dont need anything large more like a 50mm equivalent.
    Jaime:

    At the risk of seeming to be an opportunist, I'm selling a TLR that you can change the lens on - and it comes with a strap too :

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum379/...-blue-dot.html
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #28
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    @mark barendt

    Thanks for breaking it down like that. I guess above all I just want one haha. But I do understand that switching formats might be hassle and thats whats holding me back. I dont want to feel as if im starting over in a way. I dont know how large the prints that I want to make are going to be. Im assuming that plays a large roll into what your trying to convey to me? And yes your right I do need to get a light meter I have so far only depended on the one on my FE because I honestly dont know how to use anything else so i guess its time to learn!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Marin View Post
    @mark barendt

    Thanks for breaking it down like that. I guess above all I just want one haha. But I do understand that switching formats might be hassle and thats whats holding me back. I dont want to feel as if im starting over in a way. I dont know how large the prints that I want to make are going to be. Im assuming that plays a large roll into what your trying to convey to me? And yes your right I do need to get a light meter I have so far only depended on the one on my FE because I honestly dont know how to use anything else so i guess its time to learn!
    Now were talking Jamie.

    There are ways that MF cameras can really be useful to you, for example the waist level finder can give you a very different perspective. Looking down into the camera, rather than in to the back, allows you to "comfortably" get a much different perspective. For example, you can put the camera on the ground and work it while kneeling rather than laying down behind it.

    Advantages like that need to be balanced against the slower shutter speeds available and the reversed right left view in a waist level finder.

    One of the advantages of using a handheld meter is that the information isn't tied to the camera in your hand. What I mean by that is that if you have a favorite film, say Ilford's Delta 100, that you use all the time and you have "your own" handheld meter, then you can use that combo with any camera by manually dialing in aperture and time. Doesn't matter if the film is in a 35mm camera, or a MF camera, or 16x20 inch LF camera.

    On print size. Every single shot is different regardless of film size. In general though:

    Lower iso films will enlarge better, larger negatives will enlarge better, shots with camera support will enlarge better, shots with better lighting will enlarge better, tightly framed shots will enlarge better than shots that need cropping.

    If you are careful a lot of stuff done on 35mm films can make nice 11x14 prints regularly and sometimes even larger. It depends on how much fine detail you need.

    If you want more detail, bigger film formats help.

    We don't discuss the how-tos and whys of digital tech stuff here at APUG but if you are sharing via electronic media the monitors we all use are the limiting factor (ie 1024x768), virtually any file from a "nicely" scanned print or neg will be overkill for an electronic display.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #30

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    Jamie, Mark has very nicely put everything I wanted to say into perfect clarity. Yes, I have the Yashica 124G with the wide and telephoto add on lenses and have not used that camera hardly at all since I got it some 3 years ago. (It is what I started out with in High School and found this pristine example then) I have your FE (and it's friend, the FA) too. Use them much, much more than the 124G. Matter of fact I used the FE and it's motor winder out by the pool yesterday trying to get kids going down a home made slide into the pool. Can't wait for those pictures!!

    Until Mark brought up the problems and benefits with medium format, I was going to tell you, like others here, how much I enjoy my Mamiya 645 Pro. Yes I have the winder and all the goodies with it, but it is NOT as fast to use around action as the FE, I do still miss alot of shots with the 645 if there is heavy action. Just can't focus that fast......(happens with all my manual focus cameras)

    If you can find someone who would let you borrow or even use their MF camera(s), do.....run a couple of rolls though it. I think it would seriously show you exactly how different MF is but also, how wonderful it can be, even with it's limits.

    Bob E.
    Nikon F5, Nikon F4S, Nikon FA, Nikon FE, Nikon N90, Nikon N80, Nikon N75, Mamiya 645 Pro, Mamiya Press Super 23, Yashica Lynx 14e, Yashica Electro GSN, Yashica 124G, Yashica D

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