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  1. #41
    MattKing's Avatar
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    What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

    If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

    Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

    If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

    Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.
    Never thought if that


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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    That's pretty much it.

    The "high speed sync" stuff that modern Canikons deliver is based on lower power/extended duration flash that allows for flash coverage over the entire period of shutter activation.

    The problem being solved here is that, unlike leaf shutters, focal plane shutters (above their rated sync speed) do not expose the entire film plane at the same instant: The "closing" shutter starts closing before the "opening" shutter is fully open. Think of it as a slit being waved over the film/sensor.
    Ultra fast scanning back hahahaa


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  4. #44
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mweintraub View Post
    Yes, on all accounts above.

    One thing about the ND filter is that it's not a single bullet fix. When using, say, a two stop ND filter, you have to adjust your power as if you're shooting 2 stops slower film. This means more power is required.
    Yes I agree, but again, if you're opening up your aperture to the point you need an ND filter above 1/400 of a second, and a 1200ws strobe isn't enough for you for the scene, it's a pretty specialized scene and you should be able to afford more specialized equipment at that point... Haha

    I'm going on the assumption that if you're shooting with a pro level camera that has a 1/400 leaf shutter you're a pro with pro lighting of at least 1200ws of power.

    I don't often NEED that much power, but I certainly have that much in the field and double that in the studio.

    If you're only shooting with 300-600ws of power you might be somewhat limited, but I don't think many out there who could afford $2,000+ camera systems somehow can't afford the lighting to match.

    Assumptions, all assumptions...


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  5. #45
    mweintraub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

    If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

    Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.
    Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Yes I agree, but again, if you're opening up your aperture to the point you need an ND filter above 1/400 of a second, and a 1200ws strobe isn't enough for you for the scene, it's a pretty specialized scene and you should be able to afford more specialized equipment at that point... Haha

    I'm going on the assumption that if you're shooting with a pro level camera that has a 1/400 leaf shutter you're a pro with pro lighting of at least 1200ws of power.

    I don't often NEED that much power, but I certainly have that much in the field and double that in the studio.

    If you're only shooting with 300-600ws of power you might be somewhat limited, but I don't think many out there who could afford $2,000+ camera systems somehow can't afford the lighting to match.

    Assumptions, all assumptions...


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    $2000+ camera? My Mamiya Pro and Bronica SQ-A kits together don't come to that price. With the prices of MF gear now adays, it allows for serious hobbiest or professional wannabes to step up their film gear and shoot with awesome setups. I'm definitely stepping up my lighting, but I'm not near 1200ws yet.

  6. #46
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mweintraub View Post
    Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".



    $2000+ camera? My Mamiya Pro and Bronica SQ-A kits together don't come to that price. With the prices of MF gear now adays, it allows for serious hobbiest or professional wannabes to step up their film gear and shoot with awesome setups. I'm definitely stepping up my lighting, but I'm not near 1200ws yet.
    Haha point about the hobbyists but then they probably can't create art that needs any fancy lighting anyway OHHHHHHH!!! burn!!!

    All in fun ^^^

    Even my new toyo 4x5 was cheap in compassion to new prices, it's very true. But really, we are always limited to what we can afford, that said, needing such a wide aperture in general at 1/400 is still really unnecessary in most situations, either use a slower speed film, or a lens with a later focal length to accomplish your goals you have to work with what you've got

    Also I won't even bother using any power pack lower than 1200, they are kind of useless unless you only use one strobe, you might as well just use a speed light, those are more powerful anyway haha


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  7. #47
    mweintraub's Avatar
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    Ha, define art.

    Meh. I shoot because I like it. I'm trying to make a side "business" from it mainly shooting film. Mostly because I enjoy it and hope others do also. The ultimate promotion of film would be to have people hire me just for that. When/if that takes off, more/better gear will come flowing my way.

    Oh yeah, You're not really a photographer if you don't shot 4x5 or larger. or so I heard.

  8. #48
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mweintraub View Post
    Ha, define art.

    Meh. I shoot because I like it. I'm trying to make a side "business" from it mainly shooting film. Mostly because I enjoy it and hope others do also. The ultimate promotion of film would be to have people hire me just for that. When/if that takes off, more/better gear will come flowing my way.

    Oh yeah, You're not really a photographer if you don't shot 4x5 or larger. or so I heard.
    Haha some would say shooting 4x5 is a tiny format and that I'm not really approaching a pro level until I start shooting 20x24 8x10 is for advanced amateurs

    If you didn't order special sheet film in the Ilford ULF run you are a nobody hahahahaa


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  9. #49
    MattKing's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=mweintraub;1530435]
    Originally Posted by MattKing
    What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

    If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

    Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.



    Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".


    There won't be light fall off. The light transmitted by the leaf shutter will be even, it is just that due to the nature of a leaf shutter, it will perform in a manner similar to a second aperture. If the shutter isn't fully open when the flash fires, the shutter may effectively stop down the lens further than the set, normal aperture.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mweintraub View Post
    Fair enough, but some only go to up 1/250 or 1/125. It's always good to over shoot with wireless sync speeds because the fastest they sync will drop based on interference, battery voltage, etc.

    The RB/RZs go up to 1/400, right?
    True, they do, but the off camera flash that I haven't doesn't put put enough for me to be able to use that speed.
    And the Nikons max at 200 or thereabouts anyways.


    Very interesting discussion this has spawned, though! :-)

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    Last edited by analoguey; 08-01-2013 at 02:09 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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