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  1. #1
    msbarnes's Avatar
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    3D effect on the Pentax 67

    Is the "3D effect" as easily obtainable on the Pentax 67 line of lenses.

    Not to be confused with "bokeh"
    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/008vML

    OK well, I don't mean that it is "easy" because it requires good technique, lighting, composition, etc. but I've also heard that it is most pronounced with German glass because of their high micro-contrast. I've seen this moreso on small format cameras but that's probably because of popularity. I'm interested in the 67, but since it is medium format, you have more negative to work so this effect should still be obtainable given the same circumstances. I know that these are two different system/formats/lenses but i'm curious in this one particular aspect.

  2. #2
    keithwms's Avatar
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    The "effect" is most certainly related to smoothness of transitions to the out-of-focus rendering and bokeh. If you don't see obvious bokeh lines or odd blur or anything else that leaps out and distinguishes in focus from out of focus then you get that feeling of depth.

    Or, if you prefer a technical approach, I would say you have to look at the MTF charts and see if the S and M bokeh curves follow each other; that seems to be what provides smooth bokeh.

    As far as I have seen, the p67 is most often used for landscape, and landscapers tend to shoot at apertures of f/8-f/22 to capture maximum in-focus detail. So, how the system will perform at wide open apertures... well honestly I don't know from experience but I would say that the p645n system lenses are of of very high repute and are certainly blessed with nice smooth bokeh. The 645 systems are much better geared to wide open handheld shooting than the p67. Do the p645 compare with contax/zeiss? Yes, I think so. I think the p645nii system is tops. But that would be a subject of debate.

    One more thing, broadly speaking, larger formats do tend to produce better, smoother transitions from in-focus to out-of-focus elements.

    I don't see what micro-contrast has to do with the 3D "effect"... who says?
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  3. #3
    msbarnes's Avatar
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    I've read that from other forums, so I don't really understand it fully to be honest so I'm trying to understand things better. The truth is, some of the images that have been marked with the "3d effect" just strike out to me. Alot of Leica/Zeiss shooters come up these terms to name effects that seem to be most exclusive to their cameras (e.g. Leica Glow) which are ofcourse debatable. Not trying to start a debate, but I guess I'm just want to know how to achieve this effect and what to look for in a lens.

    From your explanation, I guess I'm looking for a lens/system that has good smoothness of transitions to the out-of-focus rendering and bokeh on top of good technique.

  4. #4
    Palantiri7's Avatar
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    Well I have Hasselblad, Rollei SLR/TLR and, most recently, the Pentax 67 (with 105 f2.4 lens) systems. I have developed only 2 rolls from the Pentax so my impressions are not fully formed yet but the short answer is no, the 105mm lens may not give you the Zeiss look. I say that with a big caveat because, naturally, that's just my early impression.

    You get bokeh with f2.4 but I find the bokeh a bit 'busy'. The micro-contrast seems less than my Zeiss lenses. I have two images here (both at minimum focusing distance and lens wide open on the Pentax 105). Note, however, because of the lack of my accustomed Zeiss contrast right out of the raw scan I dealt these two pictures a healthy dose of unsharp mask. I don't have the originals here with me to show you, so sorry about that.

    Anyway, just my limited-experience insight.




  5. #5
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Helpful examples.

    There are a few systems I can name that excel in sharpness / detail / contrast but which definitely are not so bokeh friendly. Busy / edgy bokeh can be a problem- of you notice bokeh first, before you notice a feeling of dimension, then I would assert that the lens isn't as good as it could be. The Mamiya 6 rangefinder lenses, for example. I adore them for what I use them for. Those are some absolutely superb lenses in terms of level of detail. Yet I typically would not use them for situations in which out of focus transitions are important e.g. portraiture or some of the images above. But on the other hand, several of the Mamiya rz and rb lenses offer very nice smooth dimensional effect; the best being, probably, the rz 110/2.8. That lens is just plain fun to work with.

    Since I am generalizing (probably unfairly!) I will just say that in my experience the Fuji EBC lenses tend to be very contrasty and the transitions can be too edgy. It gives you great apparent levels of detail but not so nice 3D effect.

    The Zeiss/Leica glass has been recognized for quite some time as delivering the best of all worlds- exceptional neutrality, just the right levels of contrast, nice smooth transitions, and good detail. But you can get similar quality from other brands. And pushing to larger formats can lead to very smooth focus and tonal transitions... in those terms, it's very hard to beat what you get from a standard no-frills 4x5 system with even the very best 35mm system.
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  6. #6
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by msbarnes View Post
    Is the "3D effect" as easily obtainable on the Pentax 67 line of lenses.

    Not to be confused with "bokeh"
    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/008vML

    OK well, I don't mean that it is "easy" because it requires good technique, lighting, composition, etc. but I've also heard that it is most pronounced with German glass because of their high micro-contrast. I've seen this moreso on small format cameras but that's probably because of popularity. I'm interested in the 67, but since it is medium format, you have more negative to work so this effect should still be obtainable given the same circumstances. I know that these are two different system/formats/lenses but i'm curious in this one particular aspect.
    I liked my Pentax 6x7 for portraits but didn't see it delivering a consistent, demonstrable edge over my Bronica SQ or Mamiya RB67 kits. Given good lighting for the subject and setting, films like 120 Kodak TMax400(TMY-2) will deliver stunning results, thanks to its tonal range and contrast, with most modern MF system cameras. Taking hearsay as canonical in this game will take you up some costly blind alleys.

  7. #7
    Palantiri7's Avatar
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    ^ Some real insight there, Keith. I must say Mamiya 6 images I have seen on the web look stunning in colour. As for the Pentax, it's only that terrifying mirror thwack that's got me; the lens is good enough!

  8. #8

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    I found the 55 (latest) to deliver this 3-D effect pretty reliably.

  9. #9
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    This was taken with the Super-Takumar 6X7 2.4/105
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6388467411_041fbcf012_b.jpg  

  10. #10
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Real secret of Leica glasses are the highest precision grinding , when you go down to 3 nanometer or less , the glass aberrations starts to goes down. This technology is at only Leica and ELCAN.

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