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  1. #11
    jp80874's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msbarnes View Post
    I just got a folder and I'll be sure to take the extra precautions, but is it bad to change the shutter speed after cocking the shutter on non folding cameras as well?
    I'm sure there are exceptions, but yes you should change the speed before you cock the shutter. Folder doesn't have anything to do with it. In general folders are usually 50 years or more old. Mine is 72 years old. Bessa III is an exception and current. Older mechanism can easily be more fragile due to metal fatigue, abuse, dried lubricant, out of adjustment.

    John
    "If you want to be famous, you must do something more badly than anybody in the entire world." Miroslav Tichı

  2. #12

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    Never cock the shutter before setting the shutter speed, with some youi could cause severe damage should you nneed to move from say 125 to 10, and never leave the shutter cocked,set the speed, cock the shutter and compose and fire,then repeat for next shot, carry6 the camera, folded or not, uncocked otherwiise if you forget to fire and leave a few weeks or perhaps monthes the next time you want to use the camera the shutter can freeze, and it is best to store them with the shutter set to the slowest, normally 1 sec,
    Richard

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jp80874 View Post
    #1 Yes. You are likely to get a speed that is not what you finally intended. It also forces the old fragile gearing. I have read and follow the procedure of setting the speed, cocking, firing the shutter to make sure it is working at that speed, composing, focusing, cocking and firing.

    John Powers
    Can you explain in simple terms why cocking the shutter first is likely to give a speed that was not what was intended and what speed are you likely to get. I have an Agfa Isolette I with 3 speeds(1/25th, 1/50th and 1/200th)If I have cocked the shutter with the speed set at /25th what speed am I likely to get?


    With the Agfa I am not clear how not to set the speed before cocking the shutter. If the correct exposure is 1/25th for the forthcoming shot and was 1/25th for the last shot as well what exactly should I do to get the correct speed?

    Are you saying that each time I should cock and fire the shutter first then do it all over again. I am not clear why this is prevents the problem you mention of getting the correct shutter speed. I presume that this requires a lens cap so no light hits the negative?

    I am somewat confused as you will see. I may have misunderstood the first part of your post completely

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

  4. #14

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    According to my experience with Zeiss folders with various Compur shutters they are o.k. to be closed cocked and yes, you can change the speeds whilst cocked with the exception of Compur-Rapid which has a booster spring in its fastest speed i.e. if cocked you can not change from or to "1/500th".
    That said I won't leave them cocked for weeks, though.
    Here is a link you may find useful: http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php

  5. #15
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    pentaxuser,

    Not changing the speed after you have cocked the shutter is a general rule of thumb for both large format and older medium format shutters such as the one on your folder. I am not familiar with the inner workings of your particular model. The point is not that you will get another unknown speed, but that you may damage the mechanism. It may not happen the first time and you may not notice a slight change, but it is an older mechanical device, more likely to break when used improperly than something newer.

    John
    "If you want to be famous, you must do something more badly than anybody in the entire world." Miroslav Tichı

  6. #16

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    OK I think that the cause of my confusion is the meaning of "set" which I had taken to be the shutter speed the camera shows i.e in that sense the shutter speed is always set. What in fact is being referred to is changing the shutter speed after the shutter has been cocked.

    In the event that you believe the shot requires the same speed and the shutter has been cocked but you decide to make a second check and the correct speed has altered then it will clearly require a lens cap. There is no way to uncock the shutter except to fire it, well not with my Agfa anyway.

    Part of my original Q still stands. If I choose to change the speed after cocking what change might I expect? If the next speed and correct speed up is 1/50th and I set that on the dial will my speed be somewhere in between1/25th and 150th ormight I get so close to 1/50th that it makes no difference?

    That still leaves the damage question. If this happens only rarely how much damage to the speed mechanism is likely?

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

  7. #17

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    Thanks John I hadn't seen your reply until I had composed and posted my second post. Answer is that I might get away with it if done only occasionally but it puts a strain on the mechanism which may break.

    I don't think I have ever had to change speed after cocking but to avoid all chance of damage I'd need to waste a neg or use a lens cap

    Thanks


    pentaxuser

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    That still leaves the damage question. If this happens only rarely how much damage to the speed mechanism is likely?
    In my experience so far... none.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #19
    Ralph Javins's Avatar
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    Never Make an Absolute General Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by R gould View Post
    Never cock the shutter before setting the shutter speed, with some you could cause severe damage should you need to move from say 125 to 10, and never leave the shutter cocked,set the speed, cock the shutter and compose and fire,then repeat for next shot, carry the camera, folded or not, uncocked otherwise if you forget to fire and leave a few weeks or perhaps months the next time you want to use the camera the shutter can freeze, and it is best to store them with the shutter set to the slowest, normally 1 sec,
    Richard

    Good morning, Richard, et al;

    Please be careful when making "General Statements" of Fact and Policy Applicable to All Things. Quickly you learn about "The Exceptions."

    In this case, most of the Russian, Ukraine, or similar Former Soviet Union (FSU) cameras REQUIRE exactly the opposite care and procedure: FIRST you cock or arm the shutter of most FSU cameras, THEN you change the shutter speed selection on most FSU cameras. Failure to follow this procedural order probably will damage or at least knock out of calibration the shutter speed dial on most FSU cameras.

    These precautions are included in the operational instructions for the Kiev-88, Kiev-88CM, FED-2c, Zorki-4, and Zorki-4K cameras here, and are valid for all of the other FSU cameras with which I am familiar, but I admit that I do not have samples of every Russian or FSU camera.

    Obtain a copy of, and read, the instruction manual for your camera.

    I also fire to release the tension on the shutter mechanism before I store the camera.
    Enjoy;

    Ralph Javins, Latte Land, Washington

    When they ask you; "How many Mega Pixels you got in your camera?"
    just tell them; "I use activated silver bromide crystals tor my image storage media."

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Javins View Post
    Good morning, Richard, et al;

    Please be careful when making "General Statements" of Fact and Policy Applicable to All Things. Quickly you learn about "The Exceptions."

    In this case, most of the Russian, Ukraine, or similar Former Soviet Union (FSU) cameras REQUIRE exactly the opposite care and procedure: FIRST you cock or arm the shutter of most FSU cameras, THEN you change the shutter speed selection on most FSU cameras. Failure to follow this procedural order probably will damage or at least knock out of calibration the shutter speed dial on most FSU cameras.

    These precautions are included in the operational instructions for the Kiev-88, Kiev-88CM, FED-2c, Zorki-4, and Zorki-4K cameras here, and are valid for all of the other FSU cameras with which I am familiar, but I admit that I do not have samples of every Russian or FSU camera.

    Obtain a copy of, and read, the instruction manual for your camera.

    I also fire to release the tension on the shutter mechanism before I store the camera.
    I am only talking about Folders, not the FSU zorkis etc, which are not, as far as I am aware, folders, and I am also talking about German and English folders, af which I have a big collection of working cameras and use them in preferance to ''modern'' Slrs,MF Etc, my folders are from a 1938 Voightlander Baby Bessa 66 to a 1954 Ensign Selfix 12/20, and much in between, and my remarks apply to these cameras, especially the Ensigns, with their in house Epsilon shutters, in which if you change from the fast cam (25 and above) to the slow cam(10 and below) you can dwhile the shutter is cocked, you can do severe damage to the shutter, as I know from personal experiance in my early days of using these cameras, before I know as much about them as I know now,

    Richard

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