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  1. #11
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by vics View Post
    The TLR is your best bet. I, too, have stood right in front of a person, framing, focusing and shooting, and she never knew I was there. Your head is bent down, looking in the finder, and it just looks likle you're fiddling with something.
    Good street pictures are made by finding a spot with the right background, framing and focusing and getting the exposure set, then waiting for someone to come along and complete the picture. Robert Doisneau did this quite often to good effect with a Rollei. He would stand there and shoot a whole roll over a period of time. You can see this technique at work in his "Doisneau Paris" book. Perhaps the best street shooter of them all. One piece of advice: Save a little longer. $250 is pretty slim for good MF photography. Oh, and check our the Sekonic L308s. Small, light, accurate digi meter that does reflected, incident and flash, with and without cord.
    Vic
    It's the WLF--not any specific camera--that lets anyone do the Jedi mind trick("Don't pay attention to that goof with the camera..."). Use my Mamiya RB67 or Bronica with a prism at or near eye level and people duck, swerve or look away. Shoot the same cameras with a WLF and no one's onto me. It's a totally non-threatening posture that doesn't register as aggressive with most people, if they notice at all.

  2. #12

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    I really like the Yashica TLRs. I've picked up several over the years and all produce fantastic photos, even the ones with the "less desirable" lenses.

    I happen to have a 124G, newly overhauled by KEH for sale right now within your price range. Also have "A" or "D" that I might part with for cheaper.

    Take a look, make an offer.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum379/...eh-repair.html

  3. #13

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    Ugh...I have to retype this all over again because one of the quoted messages had a link? Just fantastic.

    So, thanks all for your help but I don't really get everything.

    The Yashica has a light meter. It's often dismissed as rudimentary and in a way I suppose it is, but while I don't rely on it, I'm surprised how often I carefully meter with my LunaPro SBC then find the in camera meter in absolute agreement - this is with my 124; the 124G meter may be better. If you can find one, I prefer the 124 to the 124G. The "G" stands for "gold" and has gold plated flash contacts.
    Yeah, I recall reading the Yashica has a light meter, thanks. Where would one find a LunaPro SBC? Thanks for the recommendation on the 124, I had no idea about it. There is one on KEH for $149.00 (USD?) but no lens and doesn't say whether or not it has a 120 back or WLF. Also ugly condition only. Or are they built into the camera unlike Bronicas, Hasselblads, and Mamiyas?

    Handheld light meters, good ones, are very reliable. They do take a bit of learning to use. I use a LunaPro SBC.
    So, how exactly do these light meters work or any other meters like the Sekonic? Do you point a laser at the thing you want to meter?

    . You don't say what type of film but in practice, for something like street shooting with black and white or color neg
    I just got back into film a few months ago so I'm mostly testing all sorts to get a feel for the best ones for me. For colour, I like Kodak Ektar, and black and white, a lot of Ilford and Tmax.

    general meter reading for the prevailing light
    What is this?

    use the magnifier in the Yashica
    What is this? Does it magnify the image before you as an artificial zoom in? How do you know what the peripherals of your image will turn out like, then?

    The film doesn't load, wind and rewind quite like a 35mm. The Yashica anyway is slower to load. You get better at it (get a manual or download one if you get this camera) and it isn't really difficult, but it's not as quick as 35mm. The film comes on a spool. There are two spool slots in the camera, one for the film you are shooting and one for the take up spool it winds on. After your last shot you keep winding and that winds the rest of the film on the take up spool. You open the back, remove the spool, fold the paper leader down and there's a piece of "lick and stick" or other paper tape you use to tape the paper leader down. I forget which film brands have which of different types as they're all pretty obvious. For your next roll you move the spool the last roll came on over to the take up side and put the new roll in the film side.
    Interesting. I don't completely understand, but I think it will really click when I can visualize it with my own MF camera.

    One thing to remember if you get a 6x6 camera is you're only going to get about 12 shots per roll, so you'll be doing a lot of changing rolls in alleys and doorways! It can take you by surprise the first few times as you're blasting away and suddenly nothing happens.
    Yeah, I was taken aback when I found that only 12 exposure are on a roll, especially for someone who loves 36 exposure film. But I guess that 120 film is cheaper (assuming it is because of the lower amount of frames per roll) so I guess I can still end up with the same amount of frames. Plus I can carry another camera or two with me for when the 120 runs out because I'd mostly be using this for street. I also take close care with what I take pictures of as I don't have a lot of money to blow on film, so I try to have as little wasted frames as possible.

    I sometimes use a Mamiya 645 1000s for street. It's easy to hand hold and you can get a WLF for it and you get 15 shots per roll. Whether you can find one in your budget range I don't know; likewise (and even more so) an RB.
    Thanks...this 1000s is actually pretty affordable. Mamiya 645 1000s with 120 back in EX+ on KEH is $159.00. Though, I am not sure how much a WLF or a good 80mm lens (because I like 50mm in 35mm terms) would cost. I will most definitely keep it in mind , though.

    If your main issue is regarding bringing the camera up to your eye, there are are other ways of taking photos on the street with a 35mm camera. With a wide angle lens you can shoot from the hip and be pretty sure of getting something usable.
    Yeah, I've contemplated this, but I worry about missed shots and wasted frames. As an experiment, I tried this with digital, just so I could see the results right away, as well as not waste any film. Lots of awkward framing, cut off bodies, or bodies not even in the picture. If you have any tips that would make my skills with this much better, though, then by all means tell me.

    Also, it may be noteworthy that I originally was thinking a Nikon F3 or F4S but I've heard the WLF can be pricey as well as not have all metering options and a small image projected.

    645 is a good format BUT not the best if you specifically want to shoot with a WLF. The 6x6 was used with cameras with waist level finders in part to avoid having to turn the camera. With a square image there is no horizontal or vertical orientation. Depending on the film path and the format, a rectangular format will either shoot a vertical or horizontal from waist level, but you will have to turn it very awkwardly to shoot the other.
    This isn't much an issue for me as I almost always do landscape/horizontal orientation when shooting street. Actually, I don't remember the last time I did portrait orientation.

    For street shooting, the Mamiya works best on a tripod or monopod.
    I'd rather not do that, so I guess the RB67 is off limits for now.

    The Bronica is almost petite by comparison and works well handheld
    Great. What is the actual weight/dimensions of the Bronica? There is such little info available about Bronicas on the web. I'm assuming I can attach a strap and carry it "handheld" that way?

    120 backs for the SQ series are hard to find and usually pricey.
    Damn, that sucks. If I can find a 120 back for the SQ-B affordably, then I guess that would be nice. Ideally I'd want to buy the camera already with WLF and 120 back, and it coming with a lens would also be great.

    split image focus aid
    What's this?

    sing a handheld meter is really the only way to go with these. A small handheld incident meter is really all you need--something like the Sekonic 318-328 or slightly pricier 308 are small, accurate and easy to use.
    Thanks, and again, how do these light meters work handheld? And they wouldn't appear strange and intimidating to others on the street?

    The medium format shooting style is slower and more deliberate
    Why is it slower and by how much if you could estimate?

    TLR. I don't understand it, but shooting in the street with a TLR is like putting on an invisibility cloak. I've stood right next to people, taken full-on face shots, and they look at me as if I am not there. And I am talking about typical MF slow work, needing to focus, frame, etc.
    That is what has lured me to MF.

    You want a nice street TLR, get a Minolta Autocord.
    Thanks! Looks nice and affordable. But will it last? Does it have a built in meter that is accurate? There is one on KEH in EX condition for $245.00 that comes with a 75mm lens. But it mentions in the description, "rokkor" and "speeds off." What does that mean? Also, I'm assuming with TLRs I don't need to shop for backs and WLF separately, right?

    Robert Doisneau did this quite often to good effect with a Rollei. He would stand there and shoot a whole roll over a period of time. You can see this technique at work in his "Doisneau Paris" book.
    Thank you for the recommendation. I'll definitely look into that book, as I've never heard of him.

    I happen to have a 124G, newly overhauled by KEH for sale right now within your price range. Also have "A" or "D" that I might part with for cheaper.

    Take a look, make an offer.
    Thanks a lot for the offer, but as I stated originally, I am hoping to begin saving for a MF with WLF, as I don't currently have the funds for something of that sort. I'll probably start saving soon after the holidays.

    ~~

    Additional questions

    1) I've read on multiple occasions that MF has less depth of field and bokeh. But lenses I've seen can go down to f2.8 and f3.5, which is pretty good. Unless, it is with a different metric like the focal length is. Plus, I've seen some fabulous depth of field with a Rollei or Mamiya or Hasselblad, so it can't be that bad, can it?

    2) KEH - how does it work and have you had good experience with it? I've never used it but it is constantly recommended and mentioned, so it can't be that bad, can it? What is shipping and duties like to Canada?

    Thank you all again for all your help in the matter!
    Last edited by h.v.; 12-05-2011 at 07:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14

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    Buy LyleB's camera. His 124G, or the D. When it shows up, half of your questions will be answered. After the second roll, come back here with the two questions not answered and the three new ones!!

    (Oh, you want a nice street machine? Bronica ETRSi with WLF and 50mm lens. Compact, nice viewfinder.)

  5. #15
    CGW
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    You really need to do some research on your own. Some basics would be incident/reflected light metering, formats(645/6x6/6x7), medium format cameras, TLRs-vs-SLRs, and maybe even a trip to a library.

  6. #16

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    Dan Daniel:

    Perhaps, to an extent. But I also want to know about a product before purchasing it, instead of buying something blindly because it was recommended by someone. What if I figure out what something is after purchasing, when it is actually something I rather dislike and now would rather not use the camera. It would be a waste of money.

    CGW:

    You're probably right, but I do want you to know that I have been looking but I'm finding online resources fairly scarce. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong spots? Do you know any good sites to look at? I don't know of a library in 2011 that has good film photography resources, even for 35mm, maybe you're lucky in the GTA.

    I do know a bit about the different sizes that can be used on 120 (6X4.5,6X6,6X7,6X8,6X9, and so forth) and about TLRs vs SLRs (I'm guessing you brought this up due to my asking about needing to look separately for a WLF or back for a TLR? Well, I'm guessing I wouldn't need to, but I'd just like a clarification).

  7. #17
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    Dan Daniel:

    Perhaps, to an extent. But I also want to know about a product before purchasing it, instead of buying something blindly because it was recommended by someone. What if I figure out what something is after purchasing, when it is actually something I rather dislike and now would rather not use the camera. It would be a waste of money.

    CGW:

    You're probably right, but I do want you to know that I have been looking but I'm finding online resources fairly scarce. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong spots? Do you know any good sites to look at? I don't know of a library in 2011 that has good film photography resources, even for 35mm, maybe you're lucky in the GTA.

    I do know a bit about the different sizes that can be used on 120 (6X4.5,6X6,6X7,6X8,6X9, and so forth) and about TLRs vs SLRs (I'm guessing you brought this up due to my asking about needing to look separately for a WLF or back for a TLR? Well, I'm guessing I wouldn't need to, but I'd just like a clarification).
    Dude, Google is your friend. There's a crapload of information out there on nearly all MF cameras made over the past 30 years from the major brands. Otherwise, you'll wear out your welcome quick with questions you could probably go some distance answering on your own. The "I've got 5 minutes, tell me all you know about X" approach won't get you far, OK?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
    TLR. I don't understand it, but shooting in the street with a TLR is like putting on an invisibility cloak. I've stood right next to people, taken full-on face shots, and they look at me as if I am not there. And I am talking about typical MF slow work, needing to focus, frame, etc.
    ]
    I don't understand it either. I've shot a TLRs on an active drug corners after dark. Folks either ignore me, ask questions about the camera, or want their photo taken. If it was an SLR, I would have gotten a bullet in my head.

  9. #19
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    For street shooting 2 cameras come to mind: Mamiya 645 with 80mm 2.8 with WLF or a Mamiya C330 or C220 twin lens. I've used both of them successfully. The 645 has the advantage of 15 shots per roll and a pretty modest cost. The Mamiya twin lens cameras are standard 6x6 with 12 frames per roll and with interchangeable lenses from 45mm to 250mm. I use a lovely 65mm which draws beautifully. The C330 winds the shutter and advances the film in one stroke; the C220 requires a separate shutter cocking action. One rarely noted attribute of a twin lens reflex is that there is no mirror black out since there is no moving mirror. Neither have built in meters--on most MF cameras you will have to meter separately. It's pretty easy once you start doing it. As a poster said previously, you meter once and don't change your settings unless the light changes. Suggest Apug Classifieds or KEH. I've used KEH repeatedly over the years with only good things to say about them. I wouldn't suggest the auction site unless you knew what you were doing. Use the web for info on these and other models. There is a wealth of info available even on Wikipedia. Also, try camerapedia.org-it's a goldmine. Happy hunting!

  10. #20
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    h.v.:

    As I said in the other thread, welcome to APUG.

    There may actually be someone from APUG nearby (Edmonton) who you could talk to to help you with this stuff.

    I buy from a variety of sources, including KEH, but because I am just minutes from a border crossing, I have the option of having items shipped to my US mailing address. For that reason KEH is great for me.

    Most likely you won't have to pay duty if you import something using KEH, but you will have to pay shipping and GST, and as KEH seems to insist on using UPS or Fedex, you will often get hit with their (UPS or FEDEX's) outrageous "brokerage" charges.

    I've had a look at the Alberta Craigslist sites - for photographic stuff, it seems clear that Vancouver is way better. I don't know whether Kijiji is any better. That being said you might want to consider posting a WTB listing for a hand meter.

    The 124G has a waist-level finder and a fixed lens - Lyle's listing looks to be the sort of thing you are looking for.

    You might consider looking at some of the camera instruction manuals on Mike Butkus' excellent website, butkus.org. The manual there for the Yashica 124G takes you through the operation of that camera, and may very well give you some perspective on many of these issues.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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