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  1. #71
    MattKing's Avatar
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    h.v.:

    The biggest reason I suggested you seek out someone to show you one of these cameras in operation is that it will make your research efforts much more effective. The hands on experience provides valuable context that books and internet resources struggle to impart.

    It would also be a good idea to understand better where all these recommendations for immediately obtaining service come from. They come from your budget restrictions. Simply put, a $250.00 limit means that you are taking a chance on your camera and/or the seller's knowledge. All mechanical cameras require either regular service to be kept in "spec", or regular use by someone knowledgeable about how their camera should perform, and what the indications are when the camera is performing outside the normal specifications. If you buy such a camera (either recently serviced, or regularly used by someone who is knowledgeable and able to determine that the camera is fully functional), you will most likely have to pay more than $250.00.

    If, instead, you buy a camera that hasn't been recently serviced, from someone who doesn't have the knowledge to be able to evaluate the condition of the camera, you may get lucky and get a camera that is working great and won't require service soon. Then again, you may not be so lucky, and because you don't have experience with the camera, you may not be able to tell that there is a problem.

    The situation is the same with most 35mm cameras - its just easier to find way more examples of them, so the prices are lower.

    All manual cameras require regular maintenance of some sort, although the frequency of that required maintenance will vary greatly with circumstances. $150 is a reasonable charge for that sort of work. There are Canadian service people, although you may find that they are slightly more expensive.

    And so that you have a little bit more perspective on this, I'll describe a situation that may help.

    I own a Mamiya C330 TLR that I bought new from the camera store I was working in in 1976. If I recall correctly, my "employee" price for that camera, which was the store's demonstrator, was about $400.00.

    I've used it a fair bit, but it has been treated well and received maintenance service when required. If I were to sell it today, I could probably get at least $300 for it.

    If you contrast that with 35mm camera equipment that sold for $400 - $500 in 1976, most of that equipment won't attract anything close to $300 on the market now. Much of that difference is due to the fact that the medium format equipment that is available now in your price range was made in far smaller quantities than the 35mm equipment made at the same time. Much of that medium format equipment (cameras like my Mamiya) was also made for use by professionals as well.

    And by the way, the 12 exposure (or with 220 film, 24 exposure) limit worked fine for me when I used to shoot weddings, and certainly works fine now.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  2. #72
    ColdEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    But I read earlier that loading, rewinding, changing rolls, etc. can be a hassle. .
    As far as I know there is no "rewind" in 120. The film and backing paper winds into the spool on the other side.

  3. #73
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    Look, mate, would you buy a cheap - real cheap - 50-odd year old car and expect it to run like a dream and not need anything spent on it? Listen to what these expert photographers are patiently telling you. You make it sound like it's your "right" that we all tell you exactly what you want to hear and you get niggly when we don't and you seem to invent problems where there are none. This thread has gone on for eight pages now and you're still not satisfied. I'd suggest again, one last time, take Matt's advice and get some hands-on experience, then you'll understand what MF photography is about and decide whether it's what you want.

  4. #74

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    I wouldn't consider $250 "real cheap" when only $200 more is considered a golden number. Regardless, listings I've seen there are many TLRs that seem to be in my price range that have nothing other than cosmetic issues such as dings. I've already explained I do not expect anything, therefore I would think that you would also understand that I don't think I have any right to anything such as what you're describing. I didn't open this thread hoping people would tell me exactly what I wanted to hear. You know why? Because I didn't have anything specific I wanted to hear, aside from opinionated answers to my questions. For example, I didn't have my heart set on a Mamiya RB67, I was looking for advice, and based on the information given, I concluded for myself it wouldn't be the best decision. I'm getting "niggly" as you put it, not because of any person posting in this thread, but because this whole process is more frustrating than I thought it'd be. I didn't expect to hear that it would be highly recommended to go and get whatever camera you get repaired. I'm glad that people have suggested this, even though it adds to the frustration, because it allows me to make the decision with the most information possible. I don't know what I would have to be "satisfied" about. People responded, and I replied with comments and questions about their responses. Thus, the thread continued for pages.

    EthanFrank: it isn't that I don't want the advice given. As I stated above, I'm grateful for all advice, opinions, links, etc. However, I was off put by the notion that in addition to $150-$200 on a camera, I'd need to spend another $75-$150 for maintenance and repair. I didn't expect that and it just makes it, for me, more complex (because there is much more to it, it seems, than just simple purchase and begin enjoying the camera).

    MattKing: Thanks for all the information and opinions.

    ColdEye: You're right, you'd think I would have caught that by learning how 120 is loaded and advanced.

  5. #75

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    We can't do anything about your dislike for the need for maintenance other than tell it like it is.. That's just the way it is for buying older used camera.

    All you can do is to buy from a reputable dealer or a person and secure a return privilege before you make a payment. Get one in best condition you can possibly get for the money. Test it and return it if not right. Then deal with the problems as they come up after the guarantee is over.

    I really suggest you don't go forward. Based on what I read here, there is a high likelihood you won't be pleased.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    To be honest, if a Yashica was built 50 years ago, and is still in working condition, I don't think it's out of line for me to expect at least 10 years with it still functioning properly. 35mm cameras seem more than happy to be old and still have life in them for years ahead.
    Your expectation is unrealistic. Even with the best of care a camera was never intended to operate for 50 years without service... let alone 60. Yes, Virginia... it IS out-of-line to expect that. Re: 35mm cameras.. no they aren't any happier being old.

    I haven't even finished reading through this very fascinating thread but let me make an observations or two: 1. You really need to read a basic photogrpahy book; and 2. MF isn't a cheap hobby, and is getting much more expensive every day... maybe its not what you are ready to get into at this point in your life.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by EthanFrank View Post
    The attitude is a bit off-putting.
    Yes it is. I got screwed by a forum buyer who had an attitude like that. That will happen only once. I'm taking names and keeping notes!

  8. #78

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  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    I wouldn't consider $250 "real cheap" when only $200 more is considered a golden number. Regardless, listings I've seen there are many TLRs that seem to be in my price range that have nothing other than cosmetic issues such as dings. I've already explained I do not expect anything, therefore I would think that you would also understand that I don't think I have any right to anything such as what you're describing. I didn't open this thread hoping people would tell me exactly what I wanted to hear. You know why? Because I didn't have anything specific I wanted to hear, aside from opinionated answers to my questions. For example, I didn't have my heart set on a Mamiya RB67, I was looking for advice, and based on the information given, I concluded for myself it wouldn't be the best decision. I'm getting "niggly" as you put it, not because of any person posting in this thread, but because this whole process is more frustrating than I thought it'd be. I didn't expect to hear that it would be highly recommended to go and get whatever camera you get repaired. I'm glad that people have suggested this, even though it adds to the frustration, because it allows me to make the decision with the most information possible. I don't know what I would have to be "satisfied" about. People responded, and I replied with comments and questions about their responses. Thus, the thread continued for pages.

    EthanFrank: it isn't that I don't want the advice given. As I stated above, I'm grateful for all advice, opinions, links, etc. However, I was off put by the notion that in addition to $150-$200 on a camera, I'd need to spend another $75-$150 for maintenance and repair. I didn't expect that and it just makes it, for me, more complex (because there is much more to it, it seems, than just simple purchase and begin enjoying the camera).
    Your other option is to buy a camera on the forum here that has been repaired recently. Many people will keep the service history of the camera on hand - this negates the need for you to go and get it serviced. The need to sent the camera off to a technician only applies to cameras with unknown service histories.


    Brilliant!

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by EthanFrank View Post
    Brilliant!
    cpu time required: .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 sec.

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