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  1. #21
    Newt_on_Swings's Avatar
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    A few things:

    With a 2 stop push you have to accept that not everything is always going to turn out as you imagined.

    Shooting in very low light can make the meter fumble, use a good hand held light meter and set manual exposure, or use a camera with off the film metering.

    There are many more variables, from age of film to how you processed it.

    The best and easiest way to find out if your camera if running fine is to shoot a roll at box speed, in adequate lighting in the daytime. If problems occur then its the camera, if the roll is fine, then it has to do with you pushing it.

    edit: also the F3's meter may display a certain shutter speed, but when you hit the shutter it may take it at another speed.

    From the MIR site:

    [FONT=Trebucht MS, Arial, helvetica][COLOR=#000000]"When you are in automatic exposure 'A' mode, All shutter speeds proved are stepless - meaning even if the LCD panel has shown with a speed of '125' (1/125 sec) or '30' (1/30 sec), the actually speed could be 1/108 sec. or 1/26 sec. In this case, all speeds are governed by a highly precise[/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Trebucht MS, Arial, helvetica][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Trebucht MS, Arial, helvetica][COLOR=#ff0000]256 Hz[/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Trebucht MS, Arial, helvetica][COLOR=#000000] quartz oscillator.[/COLOR][/FONT]"

    http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...il/detail1.htm
    Last edited by Newt_on_Swings; 01-11-2012 at 05:05 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by dugrant153 View Post
    I think the Nikon F3's meter is narrower than what I'm used to and so it gets thrown off more so than the 60/40 CW metering I'm used to.
    Because my previous experience isn't with metered cameras, I tend to use my camera more like a meter and I'm finding that matrix metering in my FA doesn't work well for me. The F3 has matrix metering, right? Try turning it off and see if things get better. You may be subconsciously doing what has always worked for you on other cameras.

    I also agree with the others who are saying that when you push film you are basically underexposing. There's no such thing as pushing if you are considering shadows. More contrast (through overdeveloping) is not more speed.

  3. #23
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdarnton View Post
    The F3 has matrix metering, right?
    No. It is 80/20 center weighted metering.

  4. #24
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dugrant153 View Post
    Also I think I will need more dark room experience more to learn I suppose!
    In order to avoid the surge marks & dark bands you may want to make sure that your developing tank is big enough to allow the *entire* volume of developer to clear the film when you invert the tank. IME this issue is a more likely cause for surge marks than over-vigorous agitation.

    I always use a tank of a size at least twice the volume of the developer poured in. The latest type Paterson tanks are especially suitable in this respect because they have something of an 'empty head' on top, thus providing extra volume without making the tank excessively tall. Any other brand tank will do equally well provided that it's big (tall) enough.

  5. #25

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    I think it's probably more my technique this roll than my tank size cuz I use a Patterson 8 ( big enough for 3 135 rolls!). Perhaps I'm inverting too fast and letting the develop slosh like crazy.

  6. #26
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dugrant153 View Post
    Perhaps I'm inverting too fast and letting the develop slosh like crazy.
    If you're inverting too fast not all developer is allowed to clear the film at one single moment. This simulates using too small a tank and reproduces the associated problem.

    Then again, if you agitate too little/too slowly the extra turbulence at the top and bottom ends of the reel may become an issue.

    So far my pseudo science

    Everybody seems to have their own unique inversion technique, and most of them work equally well- you just to have to find your own.

  7. #27
    mikecnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandermarijn View Post
    If you're inverting too fast not all developer is allowed to clear the film at one single moment. This simulates using too small a tank and reproduces the associated problem.

    Then again, if you agitate too little/too slowly the extra turbulence at the top and bottom ends of the reel may become an issue.

    So far my pseudo science

    Everybody seems to have their own unique inversion technique, and most of them work equally well- you just to have to find your own.
    I was taught and try to go by the rule of a 5 second inversion from start to finish. I'm not sure if that is proper across the board, but that was taught to me by several profs.

  8. #28
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecnichols View Post
    I was taught and try to go by the rule of a 5 second inversion from start to finish. I'm not sure if that is proper across the board, but that was taught to me by several profs.
    5 seconds per minute sounds fine to me. I do two inversions in about ten seconds at the start of each minute (first 30-45 seconds continuously). There seems to be not just one right and the rest wrong.

    My point regarding the OP's samples was not so much about the duration of the agitation but more about the frequency or how you agitate.

    Sorry for diverging so far from the original post.

  9. #29

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    Thanks all. I do 4 rotations every minute (about 5 seconds each). Seem to get good results - guess I better run it slower!

    On a different note, I was browsing APUG and read a thread about the F3's reliability vs age. What I got from it was that while the F3 is tough and more or less reliable, since it is aging I can expect to have problems.

    Seeing as how I plan to shoot some important photographs for clients, would like your opinion on this: should I relegate my Nikon F3 to a backup camera only and run with newer more modern film cameras? Should I not expect the F3 to be reliable enough anymore due to age concerns?

    (I have an F90x that's been rock solid and thinking of getting another so I can run with two camera setup.

  10. #30
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    I do 2 slow twisting rotations once a min. Takes about 5 seconds total Faster or more I get evidence of streaking and edge effects.
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
    http://flickriver.com/photos/rich815...r-interesting/

    My Photography Website
    http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

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