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  1. #11

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    I really love the F80, so much that after I dumped the first one for scratching film, I ended up buying another one from the bargain bin at the local camera store. It scratches too, just not as deeply. Sadly I don't think I can trust it for important work (the first F80 ruined an important series of portraits.)

    You can confirm that the camera is doing the scratching (not the lab) by running film through the camera, and then opening the canister and examining it. (Hopefully you have a source of cheap film.) I have run at least 10 rolls through both F80's this way. They always scratch. It's variable (i.e. not on every frame) but predictable. Usually a line at the bottom third, and sometimes a line at the top third of the frame. It's on the shiny side of the film (i.e. not the emulsion side.) It often starts half way through the roll, getting worse as it goes. This is consistent with the scratch coming from the rollers on the takeup spool, i.e. as the circumference of the roll gets bigger on the takeup, the rollers are pressing harder against the film.

    It took me a couple of rolls to notice the problem -- it showed up badly on scans of those important portraits. But I went back and looked at every roll I shot on the camera, slides and negatives. Even though the scratches didn't show up in all of the scans, every roll had scratches. It's easy to see by holding the film at an agle to the light. No need to use a loupe, even the faintest scratches are obvious to the naked eye.
    My other camera is a Pentax

  2. #12
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    filmsamigo,

    The film pressure plate may be pushing the film too hard. See if you can adjust the pressure.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  3. #13

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    Thanks for your responses, guys.

    So I picked up a used F65 to replace the F80 (at least for the interim). Before I got rid of the F80, I wanted to make sure my F65 didn't have any issues too. Well, I scanned the negs and after 4 or 5 frames, the lines began appearing again. Is this just bad luck or an unfortunate coincidence? I'm just getting fed up with this. If I didn't love so many aspects of film photography, I would've given this up long ago. Just too much hassle.

    I'm hoping that once I set up my own darkroom that I will be able to use one of the products mentioned on the first page to get rid of the scratches. For now, I'll just have to remove the stupid lines on my computer for electronic purposes. Filmamigo, maybe you could try using one of these products to help. Your mentioning of lines appearing on important shots rings true. So many great shots I've taken with the lines appearing. Sure, I can always fix on the computer, but it still appears on my negatives and potentially darkroom prints that are larger than 5x7.

    Is this line issue just a problem with all Nikon AF cameras from the late 1990s and early 2000s? I'm going to need to keep one of these cameras despite the annoying lines until I can find a replacement (or just rely on point and shoots and disposables for film, which I'd rather not do), so is there any model I should look out for that shouldn't have this issue? I do need autofocus...that's the thing. Nikon preferably, so I do not have to purchase new lenses. Ideally I'd like something like the Contax G (annoying viewfinder notwithstanding) or Konica Hexar (even though I prefer 50mm focal length) system down the line, but I kinda need something for under $100 to work in the meantime (as Contaxes usually run $250+ and Hexars $550+).

  4. #14
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    Well, I scanned the negs and after 4 or 5 frames, the lines began appearing again. Is this just bad luck or an unfortunate coincidence?
    Initially it seemed to me that something other than the camera(s) is to blame, but after re-reading this thread and after looking at some of my own Nikons I'm not so sure anymore.

    You seem to have ruled out the processing (different labs), the film (different films) and the scanning (lines also visible by other means).

    The cameras then? The Nikon F80 and F65 seem to share the same roller design. Other Nikons are slightly different. They all work fine for me, but could it be that you are just extremely unlucky with your particular cameras (rollers)? Maybe try get your hands on an F100/F90(x)/F801(s) and see if the problem persists?

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    If not the camera either, then what? Then you're left with re-checking your 'line of investigation'. Me personally I would start by reconfirming that all the lines in the scans are also on the film proper. 'Pilot error' is sometimes too easily written-off, I've done it myself many times. Not saying that you're doing something wrong, just that it is important to keep considering all the possibilities.

  5. #15

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    Have you sacrificed a roll of film to testing? i.e. Shoot the roll all the way through, then rewind, remove the roll of film, pop open the canister, and GENTLY inspect the length of it? (You don't want to tug at the rolled-up film and induce any film-on-film abrasions, so just loosely pull the film off the reel as you inspect it.)

    I can say that I never had a scratch problem with a Nikon F100 and F75. Both different designs.
    My other camera is a Pentax

  6. #16
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    It sounds like a scanning artifact rather than a camera problem.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  7. #17
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    Alex: I never said the lines appeared on prints from lab. I don't get prints from labs usually. I see the lines on SCANS of the photo . But it isn't the scanner, the lines seem to appear on the negatives themselves.
    What exactly does "seem to appear" mean here? Please reconfirm for yourself that the lines are on the negatives themselves also (use a magnifying glass if you have to).

  8. #18

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    Sandermarijn: F100 might be too big, but I found a F90 in British Columbia which may work. There was a used camera shop here I was recommended too, so I might try that this upcoming week and if not, that F90 has my name on it (provided it's in good condition). Thanks for the tips.

    Filmamigo: No, haven't done that yet. If I have time within the next week, I'll try that out. I'll also keep an eye out for a F75.

    Sirius Glass: How so? Not sure how the scanner would be producing something that's appearing on the negative itself.

    Sandermarijn again: Seems to appear means they do appear. I don't need a magnifying glass, if you hold the negative right, you can see it through the naked eye right there, on the negative.

    Bottom line is I just want this issue resolved. I want to thank everybody in this thread again for their help on the matter. I'm also very worried about the shots I've taken already with the F80/65. I mean personal shots will still work if necessary, with lines, but what about serious ventures? The lines can be removed digitally...but do I just want to work with scanned files? No. Within the next month I want to start developing myself, and shortly after I want to begin darkroom printing. I'm not sure if these lines (I'm sure it varies by photograph) would fall under "minor" or "major" scratches as referenced by by tkamiya. The scratches are on the emulsion side. Will no-scratch (product I'd never heard of) really do the trick? Some of these lines are noticeable, others you have to enlarge to see, to the point where if I didn't edit out the lines I could probably get away with 11x14 and it still be invisible.

    Also, this may be anecdotal, I'm not sure what to make of this. I finally got back my first slides (Velvia 100f) shot with the F80 and none of the photos appear to have the line issue. Is that a coincidence? Some of the slides seem to have faint lines on them, so maybe it's just the scanner.

    P.S. I brought the F65 back to the shop. I figured if both are having the same damn issue, I'd rather keep the one that I know better and has better options to shoot with. But hopefully I don't have the F80 for more than a week or two more. I'll keep you guys posted...

    P.P.S. I did get some prints from a lab at time of processing and the lines don't appear, but I think that's just 'cause they're 4x6s. I also think they're scanned prints (I'll have to double check, though) so lines could've been removed.
    Last edited by h.v.; 06-07-2012 at 03:05 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #19
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    I finally got back my first slides (Velvia 100f) shot with the F80 and none of the photos appear to have the line issue. Is that a coincidence? Some of the slides seem to have faint lines on them, so maybe it's just the scanner.
    So the slides themselves are all clean but some of the scans are not? Not sure how to read your words.

  10. #20

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    Sorry for my lack of clarity. I said (and meant to say) the slides (themselves, just the little positives mounted to plastic) seem to have faint lines on them, so (because of this) maybe it's just the scanner (not picking up on it, or maybe it's not the same type of line). Essentially the scans are completely clean (I did use digital ICE but that never cleans up these lines for negatives), but on a couple of slides I've inspected (haven't done 'em all yet) they do seem to have lines, though not necessarily right across the entire image, so this might be something else or just a different incarnation of the same thing. Bah, I don't know! I'm getting the B&W I shot right around the same time as the Velvia back today, so we'll see if I see the same thing there.

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