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  1. #21
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    The Chinese are only doing what Japanese were previously doing...
    Not true at all. When I was growing up in the 1950's we routinely talked about "Chinese copies", but never about "Japanese copies".

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  2. #22
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    A "copy" (bad word) is an entirely different animal from a fake. The basic design inspiration of many cameras of the past (Japanese or Russian) was from Leica and Contax designs but they were not branded Leica or Contax and were not made to appear identical.

    A Minolta autocord is not a counterfeited Rolleiflex.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  3. #23
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh B View Post
    Not true at all. When I was growing up in the 1950's we routinely talked about "Chinese copies", but never about "Japanese copies".

    - Leigh
    It is true, the Japanese before and after WW11 were notorious for making copies of western manufactured goods, for example you only need to compare the Zeiss Contax and the Nikon S.P to see it,s almost a direct copy and in the fifty s I wasn't "growing up" I was an adult and I worked in engineering, I saw many examples of Dormer high speed drill bits and S.K.F ball bearings, and many other World renowned manufactured brands of machine tools that had been copied by Japanese manufacturers right down to the the colour of the printing and typeface of the company logo on the packaging, and here's another example http://www.leitzmuseum.org/CameraMak...es/Copies.html
    Last edited by benjiboy; 06-13-2012 at 09:24 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  4. #24

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    Has anyone used them? If they work well I'd buy one.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    It is true, the Japanese before and after WW11 were notorious for making copies of western manufactured goods, for example you only need to compare the Zeiss Contax and the Nikon S.P to see it,s almost a direct copy and in the fifty s I wasn't "growing up" I was an adult and I worked in engineering, I saw many examples of Dormer high speed drill bits and S.K.F ball bearings, and many other World renowned manufactured brands of machine tools that had been copied by Japanese manufacturers right down to the the colour of the printing and typeface of the company logo on the packaging, and here's another example http://www.leitzmuseum.org/CameraMak...es/Copies.html

    Yes, but the Japanese labelled it a "Nikon", they didn't pretend it was a Contax.....that's the difference between a copy and a fake.

  6. #26
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    The fake filters don't really come from China. They come from a fake China which was secretly manufactured in Nigeria.

  7. #27
    Newt_on_Swings's Avatar
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    China has pretty high manufacturing quality now. Their government has been cracking down on counterfeit goods so the many fake products are made in other areas of southeast asia where it is less stringent and labor is even cheaper. There is a pop up industry in china that is doing exactly what the japanese did in the past, reverse engineering of goods and relabeling for the home market, or for other markets outside that are not 1st world economies. Clear examples are of items such as iPhones and tablets not only are the real deal made there, there are numerous clones that are sold there comprising of many similar parts down to clone operating systems. A huge amount of goods are constructed as parts in china and assembled elsewhere, I would not be surprised though of high quality counterfeits that may make use of machinery and parts when regular plant hours are not in operation or they plan for over runs and sell off production extras.

  8. #28

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    When I was last there, about 14 months ago, the fake stuff was off the first floor but definitely available upstairs or down. You have to expect that foreign-brand goods being sold unreasonably cheap are either counterfeits or factory rejects that got slipped out the back door.

  9. #29

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    Ha, Newt ... The sitution is worse than ever. More Chinese counterfeits are coming in than ever before, and they're getting better, though anyone with a brain should be suspicious of something
    priced too good to be true. If we can't even sucessfully police the mass importation of fraud at our
    end of the line, what makes you think China can? This stuff wouldn't even exist if there weren't lots
    of crooks and sleazy big corporations here asking for this garbage. Entire cargo containers of fake
    stuff come in and inspectors at the ports have been caught using counterfeit security seals! I am
    a profession buyer and know what I am talking about. As long as there are suckers, there will be fraud. There are just as many phony Rolex watches being sold out of car trunks etc as there were
    twenty years ago. Only now its big equipment and auto parts, even name brand batteries.

  10. #30

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    Should have qualified that last remark a bit. China has been making decent student microscopes,
    amateur telescopes, binoculars, magnifiers and survey scopes for quite awhile now - but that's a
    single huge plant outside Xian which employs 30,000 people. They subcontract for quite a few companies including Nikon and Peak - but not for camera lenses or high-end applications. These things are made to specification. There are numerous other companies who either build modern
    dedicated factories in China, but most equip etc coming in legitimately is VASTLY substandard compared to EU, US, or Japanese mfg goods. Counterfeiting is way worse quality, false labeled
    (sometimes well done, sometimes so conspicuously wacky that it amazes me someone could be
    fooled by it). Mountainloads of fake stuff comes into LA for redistribution. Auto parts counterfeiting
    along is probably a multi-billion dollar enterprise. It's common to mix it in with token amouts of genuine product to conceal the scam.

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