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  1. #91
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    And your bottom line is what really matters in the end.

    From my own experience I can tell that wide open my Summitar and my Pentax lenses are different in a noticeable way. The Leica vignettes more and yields a type of distortion that doesn't look very good especially with stray direct light in the scene. The Summicron I have tried is much more neutral at its widest aperture, very similar to the Pentax.

    Stopped down to 5.6 or 8, which is where I like to be for most things, I literally must check my notes.
    I don't print very big, only to about 16x20, using a Leitz enlarger. If I printed bigger, I couldn't tell you how they would fare.

    But back to the bottom line, the best photographs are had with those cameras we love and are used to using. The small differences in lens quality are highly insignificant if you think about the total importance of any photograph. Would iconic photographs be less iconic if they were made with Pentax or Olympus lenses? I don't think so. Who cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by cobbu2 View Post
    Published in the May 2001 issue of Popular Photography, Herbert Keppler did exactly that. In his "SLR" column, that month entitled, "Can You See the Difference in Pictures Shot with a Super-High-Quality Modern Lens and an Inexpensive Old SLR Lens?" Mr. Keppler compared two identical scenes, one shot with a Leica M6 with the 50/2 Summicron and the other with a Pentax Spotmatic armed with the 50mm f/1.4 Takumar, both at f/8 on Kodak TMax 100. Each were enlarged to 8x12 using glass negative carriers for maximum flatness. He displayed full-sized detailed sample images from each print, center and corner. Both samples were virtually identical. He believed you'd have to go to at least 16x24 to see differences, if any.

    What does it prove? That at that particular aperture and enlargement degree, all other factors being equal, they were one and the same. Change any of the other factors and the results could change. I wish I could provide a link to the article, but I don't believe one exists. I am writing about this with my personal copy of the issue right here in front of me.

    Bottom line though, it's the image that counts. The camera and lens is but a tool to interpret the mind/eye vision, nothing more. I admit to owning an M6, but I also have a Spotmatic and a Yashica TL-Electro, among myriad others in my collection. On any given day, it could be any of those that expresses my vision the way I want. More often than not, it's my Pentax MX or my simple but trusty TL-Electro I've used since 1976 that gives me the image result I was looking for.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Colors are elegant and classy like difference between chinese oil paint and Dutch Rembradt paint.
    Oil paint was never used in the Chinese pictoralist tradition. Perhaps better spend some time and money on education instead on the flashy consumer goods you apparently worship.

  3. #93

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    Ok, here are scans of Mr. Keppler's article... I beg forgiveness in advance if I am making any transgressions here. Note the samples, they tell the story. But keep in mind the only story they tell are the singular conditions of this particular comparison and no other generalities are claimed. Mr. Keppler emphasized that point in the article.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Whether this really clears anything up or not is for you to decide, perhaps it can even muddy the waters. But you can't argue with its objectivity.
    But back to the bottom line, the best photographs are had with those cameras we love and are used to using. The small differences in lens quality are highly insignificant if you think about the total importance of any photograph. Would iconic photographs be less iconic if they were made with Pentax or Olympus lenses? I don't think so. Who cares?
    Well said Thomas! It's easy and or fun to get caught up in the technical and the equipment aspects of our passion, but ultimately, the deciding factor is our images and how we and others respond to them.
    Last edited by cobbu2; 06-12-2013 at 11:05 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Addiing info, clarification

  4. #94
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Too Chinese paintish for me...
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
    http://flickriver.com/photos/rich815...r-interesting/

    My Photography Website
    http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.G.I. View Post
    Oil paint was never used in the Chinese pictoralist tradition. Perhaps better spend some time and money on education instead on the flashy consumer goods you apparently worship.
    He's talking about brands of artist's oil colors. And he's possibly correct. About the paints.

    http://www.dickblick.com/products/re...FehAMgodDBEAig

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobbu2 View Post
    Ok, here are scans of Mr. Keppler's article... I beg forgiveness in advance if I am making any transgressions here. Note the samples, they tell the story. But keep in mind the only story they tell are the singular conditions of this particular comparison and no other generalities are claimed. Mr. Keppler emphasized that point in the article.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Keppler SLR Article Page 1.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	740.5 KB 
ID:	70064

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Keppler SLR Article Page 2.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	766.1 KB 
ID:	70065

    Whether this really clears anything up or not is for you to decide, perhaps it can even muddy the waters. But you can't argue with its objectivity.

    Well said Thomas! It's easy and or fun to get caught up in the technical and the equipment aspects of our passion, but ultimately, the deciding factor is our images and how we and others respond to them.
    That article is merely echoing what anyone who has actually used the equipment already knows.
    Thanks for posting it.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kubach View Post
    Funny how this post went from lenses to cars.

    Jeff
    http://theoldmotor.com/?s=s76+fiat Fiat S76. We're veering dangerously near the original topic...

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    He's talking about brands of artist's oil colors.
    That's one of the divides between artists' and (many) photographers' mind-sets: even a third rate artist will be gravely mortified if told that better tools would "improve" his/her art; or that his/her works bear the signature of this or that tool...

  9. #99
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    Don't forget Saab and Volvo.
    http://almostalwaysthinking.files.wo.../08/volvos.jpg


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    As a friend said, "Styling by Frgidaire".



 

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