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  1. #11
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    The lettering on the nameplate makes everything better or worse. You dont want to be in a japanese car in accident but a Mercedes. Thats why someone pay 20 times more Money to Mercedes because they treat their job seriously.
    And Toyota is not serious about building cars? While you can pay a few hundred dollars and get a fine Leica lens, and a shitty Fed camera body (Lada, anyone?), you can get a stellar Pentax lens for much less than that.

    I also claim that Toyota make cars of equal quality to Mercedes. You just don't get as much luxury, and they cost less to drive and repair.
    To get a Merc at the same price as a Toyota you have to buy an old one, and while that may be an OK deal for those who can afford the repair work, a new Toyota is going to be bullet proof.

    You are right, Mustafa, the Leica lens is the Mercedes. Maybe 99% of the population doesn't need those extra line pairs of resolution in order to make fine photographs.
    My Spotmatic is just as enjoyable as the Leica M2. And it's MUCH less expensive to have serviced.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    My Spotmatic is just as enjoyable as the Leica M2. And it's MUCH less expensive to have serviced.
    +1 - My Spottie takes great images. So do my Leica's. Very, very tough to see the difference between the two when the picture is hanging on the wall. Excellent cameras, excellent lenses, but I never had to pay $300 to have shutter curtains replaced in the Spotmatic.

  3. #13
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    We all do buy some thing that are overpriced - simply because we can and we feel good about it. How many here have an iphone ? Cheaper samsung or nokia will also do the job. I think if you can afford it and you are serious about 35mm photography - you should buy at least one Leitz lens in your life.

  4. #14
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkosaric View Post
    We all do buy some thing that are overpriced - simply because we can and we feel good about it. How many here have an iphone ? Cheaper samsung or nokia will also do the job. I think if you can afford it and you are serious about 35mm photography - you should buy at least one Leitz lens in your life.
    I have an iPhone, because it comes nearly free with a subscription to a data plan. That is here in the US.

    Once in a lifetime buy a Leitz lens? Please expand on why you think that is important. What does it add to a photographer's life that they can't be without?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #15
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Once in a lifetime buy a Leitz lens? Please expand on why you think that is important. What does it add to a photographer's life that they can't be without?
    Well - I will try to explain why, and what influenced me on buying Leitz lens. I was using nikon F3 and some cheap but good rangefinders, and always reading a lot of emotional reactions from those Leica users. I knew it that it will not make me better photographer, but I wanted to feel and test those camera/lenses by myself. This amount of emotions must count for something, I was thinking.

    The amount of history connected to Leica also pushed me a little. To be part of this history will maybe give you additional push in your photography: maybe yes, maybe no, but you will not know until you try it.
    Leica has such huge repertoire of lenses - and many lenses are so unique that those results can not be achieved with other lenses.

    Final decision for buying Leica was simple facts that you can sell it for same money if you don't like it.

  6. #16
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I have an iPhone, because it comes nearly free with a subscription to a data plan. That is here in the US.
    Same data plan here in Germany: Samsung/nokia vs iphone: after 2 years of subscription you will pay 700 euros more.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Before claiming . . .
    Actually, let's see such comparisons that you are claiming.

  8. #18
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Use a Toyota , it kills you at an accident with care.
    Mustafa, you are a curious fellow. Since when does the lens make the artist?

    Why don't you show us two real world examples of your lens claims? Two examples shot side by side, all other things being equal, where you can show that one photograph is clearly an improvement because of the lens. Just do ONE simple thing to back up your claim.
    I have lived with Pentax and Leica cameras side by side, and I cannot make better photographs with the Leica. SHOW me what you are talking about. Please. No more words. Just SHOW me with a picture.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    I dont have a japanese camera but I m not blind also , look at gallery , find a cron , elmar shot and look all other Toyota shots , you will not be able to find a match , do I want too much ?
    No. I want you to show me. How can you know what a certain camera will do to your photographs unless you have tried it?
    I challenge you to show me. Make two photographs, all other things being equal, with the same care taken to make both prints - and then show me the magic difference in the Leica lens favor. Just go ahead and take one of your theories and show us with some real world examples.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    I dont have a japanese camera but I m not blind also , look at gallery , find a cron , elmar shot and look all other Toyota shots , you will not be able to find a match , do I want too much ?
    Yes. I prefer Goerz lenses myself. No Leitz lens can come close...

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