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  1. #11

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    Unlikely to be of any consequence because of latitude of negative film. Shoot.
    But don't try it if you're using slide film — got to have your smarts about you with that.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmccl@yahoo.com View Post
    Use your own judgement. check out this site.

    http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
    The basis of Parker's argument is that you have to interpret your meter's reading and that is too difficult so his solution is to bracket everything.

    What a waste of film and what a way to miss the shot that you want (i.e you get the perfect shot but is is one of the bracketed exposures that had too little exposure).

    Generally, when I teach people, it takes them all of a couple of minutes to understand that the meter believes it is seeing something that represents 18% grey and that they have to interpret the results: for negative film meter the shadow that you want detail in and stop down two stops from what the meter says and for slide film meter the brightest highlight that you want detail in and open up two stops.

    Referring to the OP's original question, apply the same as above and then adjust by closing down the aperture by one stop or increase the shutter speed by one stop (assuming that, for you, the ISO rating of 800 gives you sufficient shadow detail).

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    The basis of Parker's argument is that you have to interpret your meter's reading and that is too difficult so his solution is to bracket everything.

    What a waste of film and what a way to miss the shot that you want (i.e you get the perfect shot but is is one of the bracketed exposures that had too little exposure).

    Generally, when I teach people, it takes them all of a couple of minutes to understand that the meter believes it is seeing something that represents 18% grey and that they have to interpret the results: for negative film meter the shadow that you want detail in and stop down two stops from what the meter says and for slide film meter the brightest highlight that you want detail in and open up two stops.

    Referring to the OP's original question, apply the same as above and then adjust by closing down the aperture by one stop or increase the shutter speed by one stop (assuming that, for you, the ISO rating of 800 gives you sufficient shadow detail).

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
    Fred Parker doesn't know how to use a meter properly. That's all there is to it.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    Parker simply does not know what he is doing so he has evoved [devolved] to endless testing. That is all that he can successfully do, endless testing.
    But he is using film...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    [...]
    Generally, when I teach people, it takes them all of a couple of minutes to understand that the meter believes it is seeing something that represents 18% grey and that they have to interpret the results: for negative film meter the shadow that you want detail in and stop down two stops from what the meter says and for slide film meter the brightest highlight that you want detail in and open up two stops.[...]

    What!!?
    I'm sure that cannot be correct.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    What!!?
    I'm sure that cannot be correct.
    That's about right although I only stop down 1.5 stop for the shadow.

  7. #17
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    What!!?
    I'm sure that cannot be correct.
    When you skim it too fast it sounds wrong.

    For slides, it would be a bad idea to figure out the correct exposure based on the highlights and THEN open two stops.

    David Allen's advice was only explaining the steps which EFFECTIVELY give you the correct exposure based on the highlights.

    It's sort of like Zone System placement, say spotmeter the highlight and place it on Zone VII

  8. #18

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    I cannot believe what I am reading.
    Yes it is a bad idea to open up 1.5~2 on a reading of highlights, we can put that in the cement. By dint of the reverse, it is also absurd to stop down 1.5~2 for shadows. Where are these theories coming from? If you have shadow and highlights in your scene, tell me how both are to be enumerated and preserved. It's not impossible. But it does require craftiness.

    Slide film does not allow for for a sloppy approach to metering. In my images, there is very often conflicting "information" in the scene which must all be individually balanced: shadow and highlight. I would like to know what the basis is for additional exposure over a balanced reading. In competent hands it is submitted that there is no need for any additional compensation unless there is polarisation applied (variable compensation) or a B&W filter.

    I will also point out that bracketing is valuable in marginal scenes. I don't squander film, but I don't squander the opportunity to err on the safe side in difficult conditions. Of course, quite unnecessary for a lot of the time with B&W, but it is standard, common and professional practice with transparency.

  9. #19
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    I cannot believe what I am reading.
    Yes it is a bad idea to open up 1.5~2 on a reading of highlights, we can put that in the cement. By dint of the reverse, it is also absurd to stop down 1.5~2 for shadows. Where are these theories coming from? If you have shadow and highlights in your scene, tell me how both are to be enumerated and preserved. It's not impossible. But it does require craftiness.

    Slide film does not allow for for a sloppy approach to metering. In my images, there is very often conflicting "information" in the scene which must all be individually balanced: shadow and highlight. I would like to know what the basis is for additional exposure over a balanced reading. In competent hands it is submitted that there is no need for any additional compensation unless there is polarisation applied (variable compensation) or a B&W filter.

    I will also point out that bracketing is valuable in marginal scenes. I don't squander film, but I don't squander the opportunity to err on the safe side in difficult conditions. Of course, quite unnecessary for a lot of the time with B&W, but it is standard, common and professional practice with transparency.
    Poisson Du Jour,

    I am sure there is miscommunication here because you are a regular contributor and often we agree, even if I don't write back.

    I won't say the magic compensation is 1.5 or 2 stops, I just agree that it sounds like reasonable advice.

    Suppose you spotmeter an important highlight in a scene in bright daylight, say a scene that fits Sunny-16 exactly... The spotmeter reading of an important highlight will suggest f/32.

    But you know and I know the shot is to be taken at f/16.

    Now suppose there are deep shadows in that same scene.

    With slide film you will still stay with f/16... Because otherwise your important highlight will be destroyed.

  10. #20
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    In my images, there is very often conflicting "information" in the scene which must all be individually balanced: shadow and highlight.
    In your images where you are forced to lose shadows or highlights, then you are right. The oversimplification of "meter highlight and open up two stops" is over simple. A studied approach is better.

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