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  1. #21
    gorbas's Avatar
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    Hi Tkamiya,
    I'm not sure did you check out my Flickr Horizont page?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2698328...7623331296558/
    There are two pictures there showing difference in field of view between those two cameras, Horizont and Xpan.
    If you take look at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2698328...57623331296558
    you will see how much curvature is introduced by rotating Horizont lens. In reality those chairs are in straight perfect line. I was right in middle of them and maybe 2-2.5meters away. So far this one is perfect example I found in all my pictures of this phenomena. Pictures of the straight long walls are also very indicative. But when you picture everything else this phenomena is very nice hidden and I like it a lot.
    Nice thing about S3 is that it has 1/30s. I do not care about anything faster than 1/125 but found that I'm using those slower speeds a lot.
    Inside film chamber of S3 I tried last year was very rough. After one roll there was a lot of emulsion dust left inside.
    If I have time today I will try to find you few more examples of the same scene taken with Horizont and Xpan.
    My approach was to fit pictures taken with Xpan in my vision of pictures taken with Horizont. Maybe if you start with Xpan you can be happier and poorer!? But do not mix them!

  2. #22

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    I noticed Lomo site was offering 100 dollars off on Horizon Perfekt so I grabbed one. I'm going to start with this....

    The char example is very telling. So it has a pronounced curve toward the edge then. I'll really have to shoot a brick wall to get a handle on it. I was curious as to what shutter speed really means to this camera. The lens is open and rotates. So when it says 1/250, is it an equivalant exposure per section of the film?? It's open longer than that for the lens to sweep side to side, correct??
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  3. #23
    AgX
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    Yes, this the disadvantage or adavantage, depending on viewppoint, of rotational panoramic cameras.
    Though there had been a trend to reduce overall exposure time with those.

  4. #24
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Its too late to join the discussion because you bought the camera. I am interested in these cameras for a long time and I contacted with Lytkarinko at Moscow - One of the largest optical glass makers and casters of 8 meters diameter Chilean telescope mirror - and Zenit Factory at Moscow. I wanted to see a lens diagram of Perfekt camera and they said it was a old project and lens designed and produced at glass factory. Zenit reply was interesting , if I order 1000 dollars or more , they said they could send me 4 perfekt camera each 250 dollars. No shipping fee and they carry the package with their van to Moscow Int. Airport.
    I want to add these cameras pictures gives an wrong impression that they look too big. In real time , they are small cameras to what to do.
    They use watch mechanism - real one - to move the lens and when they are broken , no camera repair shop can repair.
    They have thin cheap feeling plastic body and cheap noisy mechanism.

    And the latest notice , with latest model , they changed the lens design and quality drops too much and lots of fans flame to zenit.

    Umut

  5. #25
    AgX
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    Umut, see post #5.

  6. #26
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Thank you AgX. I think Soviets produced the most of the Tessars on Earth. I have a FED 50mm Tessar and you would not want to see its dim light performance , color like a .... .

  7. #27
    David Brown's Avatar
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    An xpan is a fine camera. But (as has been stated) it is not unlike a cropped medium format negative. Think of it this way: an xpan with a 45mm will look essentially the same as a 45mm (or 50) lens on a hasselblad or a tlr if you simply crop the 120 negative off the top and bottom so that it's only 1 inch high (by 2.25 inches wide). That 1 x 2.25 is pretty close to the negative size of both the xpan and the Horizon. The xpan with a 45mm lens gives a field of view around 70-75 degrees (estimate). I can get pretty close to the same "image" by using my 55mm lens on my RB67 and cropping.

    HOWEVER, the Horizon works entirely differently. For one thing, it gives a field of view of 120 degrees! This is achieved by a 28mm lens and a film gate in the back of the camera that is NOT flat, it is curved. This is so, as the lens rotates, the distance from the lens to the slice of film being exposed at that moment stays the same. This causes objects at the ends of each frame to be both optically and literally farther from the camera then things in the middle of the frame. Example, if you wanted to take a picture of a group of people all standing next to each other, you would have to arrange them in a semi-circle in front of the camera where each person would be the same distance from the camera. Otherwise, the people in the center would be the tallest, with diminishing height progressing to each end. So, yes, a brick wall (or almost anything else, including a not perfectly centered horizon) will appear curved in the image.

    Landscapes can be achieved if you get the horizon (of the Earth, not the camera) level and centered in the camera. This is, to some, a limitation; but when used properly, can make spectacular images.

    Think of it as the Horizon camera being a true panoramic, while the xpan is simply just wide angle.

    Clear as mud?

    See:

    http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/horizon202/index.htm

    http://www.fotoralf.de/horizon.htm

    http://www.panoramic-shot.com/galerie_irland.htm
    David
    Taking pictures is easy. Making photographs is hard.

    http://www.behance.net/silverdarkroom
    http://silverdarkroom.wordpress.com

  8. #28
    AgX
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    Now the question arises what panoramic means...

    Is it just the aspect ratio? Or need it be wide angle too? (Both features are independent of each other.)

  9. #29

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    I'm going to have FUN with this thing!

    Tripod is pretty much a requirement, right??
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  10. #30
    AgX
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    Depends what you expect. See post #23.

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