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  1. #31
    hdeyong's Avatar
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    E. von H., the cars were bought new at the same time, owned, driven and serviced by the same people, side by side.
    I know, having worked around cars for most of my life, that GM and the rest made some real boners. But, so have the others.
    I worked for quite a while at a large truck dealership that sold Mercedes products, and was left thoroughly unimpressed. One of their engines was nicknamed "the grenade".
    I just get a little tired of Mercedes being held up as such a big deal, because all of my experiences with them over a spread of about 35 years have convinced me that they're really not a lot better than most other products out there. But for the price, they certainly should be.

  2. #32
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    the modern term for 'overengineering 'is' robustness', and it is a good thing.
    I thought these two terms were contrary to each other.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    I thought these two terms were contrary to each other.
    You're right, they are.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by hdeyong View Post
    E. von H., the cars were bought new at the same time, owned, driven and serviced by the same people, side by side.
    I know, having worked around cars for most of my life, that GM and the rest made some real boners. But, so have the others.
    I worked for quite a while at a large truck dealership that sold Mercedes products, and was left thoroughly unimpressed. One of their engines was nicknamed "the grenade".
    I just get a little tired of Mercedes being held up as such a big deal, because all of my experiences with them over a spread of about 35 years have convinced me that they're really not a lot better than most other products out there. But for the price, they certainly should be.
    There you go.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    How can new Leicas claim to be made in Germany when the body, and, I presume, shutter, are made in Portugal?
    I suspect for a similar reason as you claim to be from NE Ohio?

    "Assembled in Germany" takes more engraving, and, I presume, that might drive the price up.

  6. #36

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    Shit, the top plate is engraved in Portugal, and I read at least one report of it falling off! Ken Rockwell (and others I have read) have had many problems w/the M7 shutter. And this Leica QC?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    Shit, the top plate is engraved in Portugal, and I read at least one report of it falling off! Ken Rockwell (and others I have read) have had many problems w/the M7 shutter. And this Leica QC?
    Hey! I am certainly not Ken Rockwell but my M7 runs great. The shutter is quieter and more accurate then any of my other Leica film cameras, and the top plate is still firmly planted where it was when I bought it. Besides, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything Mr. Rockwell writes, I know he doesn't either. I don't own a Mercedes and I don't own a Cadillac and I am not even clear what that has to do with cameras anyway. To the best of my knowledge neither of them were ever built by Leica.

    I don't know whether Leica is any more reliable than any other brand of camera. But I do know that you won't figure that out by giving us a lecture on what your neighbor does or does not drive. The most reliable camera I have ever owned is a Pentax K1000, which is still going strong 40 years after I bought it. But that doesn't mean that the M7 won't also be going strong when 40 years rolls around. I am sure if you ran a poll you would locate just as many Leica owners that are willing to swear that their Leica has run non-stop for 40 years or more. I just hope that I am still able to use both of them in 40 years, and that is certainly not a condemnation of their reliability!

    I am also pretty sure I will require a lot more service between now and then than either of them will. And I still won't own a Mercedes or Cadillac.

  8. #38
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Where something is made is irrelevant. How it is made is important.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    I saw the M7 video, and they sure made no mention of either making or putting a shutter in. And the "MP" stands for "Mechanical Perfection"? Leica makes a BIG thing out of "Made in Germany". I can quite accept my Contax G system being produced w/Zeiss test machinery and supervised by Zeiss people, but it says "Made in Japan"!
    I used to own a Contax 139 which I bought brand new. I also owned five Zeiss lenses for it. Two of my lenses were made in Germany and three were made in Japan. The Japanese lenses were said to have been assembled in Japan using German made Zeiss glass and Japanese made lens barrels. All I know for sure is that all five lenses were excellent.

    Zeiss (Contax) had a partnership with Kyocera (Yashica).

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    You are better off looking at Boeing if you want the best of American engineering.
    I see what you mean, as Boeing have factories and research facilities all around the world I guess that makes the Dreamliner their 'Portuguese Leica', something else that can also be blamed on foreigners ;-)

    This is just an absurdist thread from the start though, taking a very narrow insular view of the world and trying to make a case against Leica from it. Almost any mechanical or consumer product will have sub-assemblies or materials from other parts of the world. Leica use Copal shutters in their digital FF cameras, they arrive built, not as a kit of parts. But a shutter is not a camera, just like an imported piece of rosewood is not a guitar, it has to go to a specialist to be made into something else. And just remember, when Leica were at their most vulnerable in the 1970's and 80's they were confident enough of their manufacturing standards that they could proudly engrave 'Made in Canada' on many of their high end bodies and lenses, some of which are now the most sought after.

    Steve

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