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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreios View Post
    I'm not sure what are you pointing at, but I always remember a sentence from one of E. Waugh's characters - "Czechs make good coachmen. Nothing more."
    Evelyn was a Brit of the colonial era. Everyone was inferior!

    Andreios, look up the prewar (WWII) Tatra autos, and the Avia aircraft from the same era. Absolute world class engineering, second to none. Why else do you think Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia?

  2. #52

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    I drive a 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. I bought it new and it's been a fantastic vehicle. I have stopped dead, hub deep in very sticky river mud and then just drove out of it without even unwinding my winch (locking differentials are great). Try doing that with any of your reliable cars!

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    I see what you mean, as Boeing have factories and research facilities all around the world I guess that makes the Dreamliner their 'Portuguese Leica', something else that can also be blamed on foreigners ;-)

    This is just an absurdist thread from the start though, taking a very narrow insular view of the world and trying to make a case against Leica from it. Almost any mechanical or consumer product will have sub-assemblies or materials from other parts of the world. Leica use Copal shutters in their digital FF cameras, they arrive built, not as a kit of parts. But a shutter is not a camera, just like an imported piece of rosewood is not a guitar, it has to go to a specialist to be made into something else. And just remember, when Leica were at their most vulnerable in the 1970's and 80's they were confident enough of their manufacturing standards that they could proudly engrave 'Made in Canada' on many of their high end bodies and lenses, some of which are now the most sought after.

    Steve
    I have had 2 brand-new M4s, 2 beautiful M3s, 7 brand-new Leica lenses (one of which was made in Canada, which I have no problem with--This was in the late 60s). What I have a problem with is this Never-Never Land Spell of "Made in Germany!" that Leica tries to cast on people. (I also have a 1c ,3 Valoys-all different-and 4 leitz enlarging lenses-all different. THOSE were made in Germany.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    I have had 2 brand-new M4s, 2 beautiful M3s, 7 brand-new Leica lenses (one of which was made in Canada, which I have no problem with--This was in the late 60s). What I have a problem with is this Never-Never Land Spell of "Made in Germany!" that Leica tries to cast on people. (I also have a 1c ,3 Valoys-all different-and 4 leitz enlarging lenses-all different. THOSE were made in Germany.
    Well, the brass is possibly not made in Germany, but I wonder how much of the brass in an FM2 was made in Japan? How much of the steel in a current Cadillac is made in the US? How much of the current Cadillac is made in the US? I know we have a factory in my town that makes plastic bus parts for a Canadian company. The world has changed from the "glory days" of the 60s when men were men, trolls were trolls, and cameras or cars were cameras or cars. Now a car is a computer and a camera is a gps. Oh, wait, not a Leica.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
    The world has changed from the "glory days" of the 60s when men were men, trolls were trolls, and cameras or cars were cameras or cars. Now a car is a computer and a camera is a gps. Oh, wait, not a Leica.
    Hmm. I know you are being facetious but in my world cameras are still cameras and cars are still cars.

    They may both use computers and they may both have GPS, but the intended function is either to take pictures or to transport someone from spot to spot. In this case form does follow function.

  6. #56

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    The best input I can chime in with is a question: Would you rather have a BMW made in Germany, or the same model made in South Carolina? I live on the SC border, and when I go below the line to buy gas and I see the humanity, I am NOT impressed. Remember, employers are scared to death to cherry-pick for good workers, and generally hire on quotas. As for me, give me the genuine German made version. German craftsmanship is unquestionable. Not everything German is the cat's pajamas--the 1974 VW Dasher springs to mind. But generally speaking, if you want the best it's usually going to be German.

  7. #57
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    I don't want any BMW whether it is built in Germany or the US. Most of them ride like trucks from my perspective. You may have read too many Car & Driver magazines in your youth.

    As for German built usually being the best? I would have to ask, best for what? If best means most expensive, you are probably correct. If by best you are referring to something that works best in a given scenario then there are many things to consider and where it is made is not really very high on my list.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    What I have a problem with is this Never-Never Land Spell of "Made in Germany!" that Leica tries to cast on people.
    Yes, there is the superficial meaning of what 'Made in.....' means when referring to premium goods. It could be best designed, best built, most reliable etc. Often it will be combinations of those elements.

    But workers in countries like both Germany and Japan especially have an extra ingredient, it is work ethic and pride in the job they are doing. You are paying for the care and attention they put into the work. Irrespective of national boundaries there are companies that have always pushed their workers to take responsibility for the work they do, like an Aston Martin engine builder signing his finished engine. There obviously isn't enough room for everybody to sign inside a Leica camera, but the precision work needs the same work ethic. And it's companies such as Leica that have the expertise in motivating workers to be proud of their efforts that can export this knowledge and work ethic to other countries. The Germans and Japanese are proud people, workers proud to do well, so 'Made in Germany' or 'Made in Japan' may just mean an awful lot more to them than 'Made in the USA' or 'Made in the United Kingdom' means to other workers.

    Steve

  9. #59
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    I'm 100%made and assembled in Germany, but the warranty period is overand a no-retun policy is in effect now. given the current state of affairs. Iwouldn't buy there again.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    I'm 100%made and assembled in Germany, but the warranty period is overand a no-retun policy is in effect now. given the current state of affairs. Iwouldn't buy there again.
    No chance of a factory reconditioning like Leitz used to do?

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