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  1. #41
    John_Nikon_F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    Interesting. I like the fact that the F/F2 have no electronics in the body. Meter craps out? Just put another finder on, send the broken one to the repairman without tying up the entire camera.
    Well, not entirely true. The F, yes. F2 does have the battery chamber, power switch, and the wiring in the body. The F only has the wiring for the sync contact. That's it. So, in the case of the F2, it may still have to go in, if the battery chamber tag or the power switch is the issue. If voltage is verified at the two contacts next to the mirror box, then, yes, just swap prisms and keep going.

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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwinnParamount View Post
    I have an F3 hp to compare to the F-1N but I thought it more appropriate to compare Nikon's second pro camera (F2) against Canon's second pro camera. As it happens, the Nikon F1 was introduced about 12 years before the Canon F-1 so the two companies are were a bit out of sync. If I were to compare cameras from a common decade, then it would be F2 against F-1 and F3 against F-1N. Both comparisons are interesting for their own reasons.

    I am also interested in why professional photographers preferred Nikon over Canon by a large margin. If guessing, I would say it was because of the 12 year jump Nikon had on Canon. But Canon made such a great entry into the pro marketplace with the F-1, I am still a little bit surprised by the lack of pro adoption. Thoughts?
    The New F-1 was Canon's third pro SLR. It sounds like you're not aware of Canon's first pro SLR the Canonflex which was released at the same time as the Nikon F. This first release likely contributed to Canon playing catch up to Nikon thereafter.
    1. Nikon F and Canonflex in 1959
    2. Nikon F2 and Canon F-1 in 1971
    3. Nikon F3 (1980) and Canon New F-1 (1981)


    This is a handy timeline of SLR releases from Minolta, Canon, Nikon & Pentax -> Minolta SLR's vs. Canon, Nikon & Pentax
    Last edited by Les Sarile; 01-04-2014 at 08:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #43
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    This debate was a perennial favorite in photo magazines of the '70s. It makes even less sense now than it did then.
    If you want a debate that makes sense, you will have a hard time finding it on APUG. As a matter of fact, you won't find sensible debates in any arena (certainly not D.C.). But then again, I am not interested in sensible debates. I am interested in the opinions of photographers.

  4. #44
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Sarile View Post
    The New F-1 was Canon's third pro SLR. It sounds like you're not aware of Canon's first pro SLR the Canonflex which was released at the same time as the Nikon F. This first release likely contributed to Canon playing catch up to Nikon thereafter.
    1. Nikon F and Canonflex in 1959
    2. Nikon F2 and Canon F-1 in 1971
    3. Nikon F3 (1980) and Canon New F-1 (1981)
    I've always thought of the Canonflex as a false-start rather than a serious professional camera. It wasn't part of a "system" as the Nikon F1 was. It never got any traction although it was Canon's first SLR. There were later Canon SLRs (Pellix, for one)... which is where the FL mount comes from. At the time Canonflex was introduced, most professionals weren't using 35mm anyway and thought of the 35mm rangefinder as kind of old-fashioned. They were still mostly in the speed-graphic world or the 6x6 world. As far as I've read, it was the F1 that finally convinced the majority of professionals to consider 35mm. When they decided to get serious about professional 35mm cameras, they produced the F-1.

    It seems to me that Nikon defined what a professional camera system (lenses, finders, bodies, motor drives...) should be with the F1 while Canon ignored the pro 35mm market for almost a decade. When they finally took the plunge, they brought out a camera that I believe is the equal of the F2. Their second (third if you count the F-1n... a minor upgrade of F-1) effort at a pro camera was the New F-1... which is the camera that I have now.

  5. #45

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    I have all three Canon F-1 models as well as a number of Nikon F2s. Of the Canon F-1s I prefer the original. The F-1N (last model) does have a faster working meter but when I use it wth the AE finder in aperture priority mode, there is no button to lock the reading. I find myself going back to manual metering. In that case an earlier F-1 works just as well. With the earlier F-1s I can use all of the shutter speeds even without a working battery and I also have mirror lock-up for when that's needed. I only wish the F-1N's version of a Waist Level finder was availabe for the F-1 and F-1n. If I must use soemthing like that I will ut the 6X finder on a Nikon F2. The Canon F-1/F-1n is less bulky that a Nikon F2 with a standard (metered) prism finder. Even though the F-1/F-1n has the meter in the body, you can't see the needle with a waist Level finder attached. The Speed Finder will show the needle. With the Nikon F2 I need to keep my eye centered in a very narrow range to see meter readings. I use Canon F-1s and Nikon F2s but I use and like the Canons more.

    Both companies made good lenses over the years. The 105/2.5 Nikkors were all good and the 100/2.8 Canon FD lenses were also good. The 28/3.5 AI Nikkor was better than earlier 28/3.5 Nikkors and the 28/2.8 FD SC was a sleeper and an excellent lens. Both companies made decent standard lenses. The 55/3.5 Micro Nikkors were good and so were the 50/3.5 Canon FD SSC and New FD lenses. The 200/4 Nikkors from the QC on were very good as was the 200/4 FD SSC. The 35/2 Nikkors are all good and so are all of the Canon 35/2 models. The 135/2.8 Nikkor QC and K have very nice out of focus rendition and so does the 135/2.5 Canon. If you are looking to do some good work you won't have any advantage using a Nikon F2 as opposed to a Canon F-1/F-1n/F-1N. It's more fun to use and enjoy both systems than to worry which body or lens is 1% better than another.

  6. #46
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynachrome View Post
    I have all three Canon F-1 models as well as a number of Nikon F2s. Of the Canon F-1s I prefer the original. The F-1N (last model) does have a faster working meter but when I use it wth the AE finder in aperture priority mode, there is no button to lock the reading. I find myself going back to manual metering. In that case an earlier F-1 works just as well. With the earlier F-1s I can use all of the shutter speeds even without a working battery and I also have mirror lock-up for when that's needed. I only wish the F-1N's version of a Waist Level finder was availabe for the F-1 and F-1n. If I must use soemthing like that I will ut the 6X finder on a Nikon F2. The Canon F-1/F-1n is less bulky that a Nikon F2 with a standard (metered) prism finder. Even though the F-1/F-1n has the meter in the body, you can't see the needle with a waist Level finder attached. The Speed Finder will show the needle. With the Nikon F2 I need to keep my eye centered in a very narrow range to see meter readings. I use Canon F-1s and Nikon F2s but I use and like the Canons more.

    Both companies made good lenses over the years. The 105/2.5 Nikkors were all good and the 100/2.8 Canon FD lenses were also good. The 28/3.5 AI Nikkor was better than earlier 28/3.5 Nikkors and the 28/2.8 FD SC was a sleeper and an excellent lens. Both companies made decent standard lenses. The 55/3.5 Micro Nikkors were good and so were the 50/3.5 Canon FD SSC and New FD lenses. The 200/4 Nikkors from the QC on were very good as was the 200/4 FD SSC. The 35/2 Nikkors are all good and so are all of the Canon 35/2 models. The 135/2.8 Nikkor QC and K have very nice out of focus rendition and so does the 135/2.5 Canon. If you are looking to do some good work you won't have any advantage using a Nikon F2 as opposed to a Canon F-1/F-1n/F-1N. It's more fun to use and enjoy both systems than to worry which body or lens is 1% better than another.
    I believe that Canon didn't provide an A.E lock on the New F1 because it's a professional camera and they expect the users to know enough about exposure to use the exposure override, whereas the consumer grade A series provide the facility.
    Ben

  7. #47
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynachrome View Post
    I have all three Canon F-1 models as well as a number of Nikon F2s. Of the Canon F-1s I prefer the original. The F-1N (last model) does have a faster working meter but when I use it wth the AE finder in aperture priority mode, there is no button to lock the reading. I find myself going back to manual metering. In that case an earlier F-1 works just as well. With the earlier F-1s I can use all of the shutter speeds even without a working battery and I also have mirror lock-up for when that's needed. I only wish the F-1N's version of a Waist Level finder was availabe for the F-1 and F-1n. If I must use soemthing like that I will ut the 6X finder on a Nikon F2. The Canon F-1/F-1n is less bulky that a Nikon F2 with a standard (metered) prism finder. Even though the F-1/F-1n has the meter in the body, you can't see the needle with a waist Level finder attached. The Speed Finder will show the needle. With the Nikon F2 I need to keep my eye centered in a very narrow range to see meter readings. I use Canon F-1s and Nikon F2s but I use and like the Canons more.

    Both companies made good lenses over the years. The 105/2.5 Nikkors were all good and the 100/2.8 Canon FD lenses were also good. The 28/3.5 AI Nikkor was better than earlier 28/3.5 Nikkors and the 28/2.8 FD SC was a sleeper and an excellent lens. Both companies made decent standard lenses. The 55/3.5 Micro Nikkors were good and so were the 50/3.5 Canon FD SSC and New FD lenses. The 200/4 Nikkors from the QC on were very good as was the 200/4 FD SSC. The 35/2 Nikkors are all good and so are all of the Canon 35/2 models. The 135/2.8 Nikkor QC and K have very nice out of focus rendition and so does the 135/2.5 Canon. If you are looking to do some good work you won't have any advantage using a Nikon F2 as opposed to a Canon F-1/F-1n/F-1N. It's more fun to use and enjoy both systems than to worry which body or lens is 1% better than another.
    Excellent comments and very interesting observation of detail. As it happens, I picked up a near mint Canon 28mm f2.8 S.C. today ($59). I am impressed with what I see through the viewfinder, but will need to develop my film and make a couple of 11x14 prints before I can judge the lens.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwinnParamount View Post
    I've always thought of the Canonflex as a false-start rather than a serious professional camera. It wasn't part of a "system" as the Nikon F1 was. It never got any traction although it was Canon's first SLR. There were later Canon SLRs (Pellix, for one)... which is where the FL mount comes from. At the time Canonflex was introduced, most professionals weren't using 35mm anyway and thought of the 35mm rangefinder as kind of old-fashioned. They were still mostly in the speed-graphic world or the 6x6 world. As far as I've read, it was the F1 that finally convinced the majority of professionals to consider 35mm. When they decided to get serious about professional 35mm cameras, they produced the F-1.

    It seems to me that Nikon defined what a professional camera system (lenses, finders, bodies, motor drives...) should be with the F1 while Canon ignored the pro 35mm market for almost a decade. When they finally took the plunge, they brought out a camera that I believe is the equal of the F2. Their second (third if you count the F-1n... a minor upgrade of F-1) effort at a pro camera was the New F-1... which is the camera that I have now.
    There was no Nikon F1. It was simply the Nikon F.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  9. #49
    SchwinnParamount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    There was no Nikon F1. It was simply the Nikon F.
    Ok, Mr. Pedantic.

  10. #50
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    I have an AE motor drive fn, high power nicad battery, charger and a dummy battery for my F1n I'm not using. Makes my camera too heavy for this old cat.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang



 

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