Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,702   Posts: 1,482,652   Online: 643
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Leica Outing!!!

  1. #11
    alien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    226
    Images
    21
    Hi guys,

    don't get upset about all this..I am just majorly happy about my purchase and how it seems to fit perfectly!
    There are plenty of super cameras out there - I am shooting 6x7 and 4x5 as well and know how satisfying a great large negative can be.

    Nevertheless, the Leica is just good fun, and that is what counts - at least for me!

    have a look at one if the pix from the weekend!

    All the best and good light to all!

    Ansgar

  2. #12
    alien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    226
    Images
    21
    oops, the picture, did not appear...let me try again!

    I think the file was too large...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails File8146 copy.JPG  

  3. #13
    df cardwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Dearborn,Michigan & Cape Breton Island
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,342
    Images
    8
    The best picture I've seen all year ! FANTASTIC !

    .
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  4. #14
    Lee L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,237
    I told Don that I don't like to get involved in these arguments because they usually go nowhere, and there's no convincing those who argue theory against practice. I don't know how many hundred rolls of high resolution, fine-grained film like Kodachrome 25, Velvia 50, APX 25, etc. gnashings or Robert have put through a Leica on a solid support, but I do know that 35mm Kodachrome shots from Leicas (and I believe other brands) have been used for huge murals in Grand Central Station. I suspect that Don has put a lot of film through both MF and 35mm cameras. I've shot hundreds of rolls of that kind of film through multiple brands of lenses, and many thousands of frames through Leicas.

    The problem comes when people apply theory blindly, without regard for practical circumstances, and willfully misprise what someone else has said. I'm not a Leica junkie or collector, but as far as I know, Leica uses both physics and aesthetic judgement, and with fewer cost constraints than other manufacturers, in their lens design process. This is more of a case of physics be exploited with less regard for cost than physics be damned.

    Sure, we all can figure out the difference in negative area between 6x6 and 35mm, and know about the attendant difference in apparent grain. Square mm for full frame is a factor of 4, area cropped to 35mm proportions is a factor of 2.8, and linear distance across the long dimension is a factor of 1.67. But that's not the whole story, and you should also consider that Don's really talking about best practice, with enlargements at more typical sizes that don't stress MF, or the best of 35mm. Don's not stupid or inexperienced, even if he is only a photographer.

    I also know that data isn't the plural of anecdote, but here's an anecdote for you. I was required in graduate school to take two classes outside my discipline, and decided to do an upper level photography course. I had to petition for entry with a portfolio since I was not an art major. The professor shot mostly MF and 4x5 for the work he regularly exhibited in galleries and museums. When he came to one of my 11x14 prints (a Perrier bottle on a brick ledge with weathered wood, an election sign, and a screened door) he stopped and did the close inspection routine that we all do when evaluating technical quality; you know... the viewing an 11x14 from a few inches routine. After a few minutes he said, "You shot this with a Hasselblad, right?" I told him (truthfully in case you want to question that) it was shot with a handheld CL and 40mm Summicron C. He then asked about film and developer and looked closely for a while longer. So in the real world, at 11x14, with an experienced judge, yes, a Leica lens can rival a Hasselblad, despite the belief that it can't happen because of theory or physics.

    I have a number of other similar anecdotes, but of course they too are theoretically and sometimes practically impossible. I know because experts have told me so. Both Don and I, and perhaps others, will likely continue along blindly, doing what we aren't supposed to do. It's about seeing for me anyway, not MTF curves or line counts. I've only been shooting and trying to improve all aspects of my photography for 40 years, at times in professional studios, or making 2000 custom B&W prints a month by hand on two D5s, and shooting with many 35mm, MF, and 4x5 lenses, including Hasselblads and Leicas. So I probably just don't know what I'm talking about and you should take me to task for being stupid.

    I'm also not a trained physicist, but I work part time in a physics department these days.

    And Alien, if you've read this far, enjoy the new camera and lenses in good health. If you use them to their limits, you'll improve your work, and you'll appreciate what you have every time you see the results.

    Lee

    "That's all I have to say about that." F. Gump
    Last edited by Lee L; 02-08-2006 at 08:25 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #15
    alien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    226
    Images
    21
    Thanks df, I am glad you like it!

    Thanks Lee for your words,

    I don't know whether I will ever be able to exploit Leitz glass to the limit, as I have an aversion to tripods - I am very much a hand held man, as it gives me great flexibility. This of course downgrades what theoretical quality I can get from the lens...

    HOWEVER I primarily did not buy the Leica for its lenses - I just ALWAYS wanted a superb mechanical camera - especially the R 6.2. So please people don't get into arguments about all this - I am having fun, and I hope so have you!

    ansgar

  6. #16
    SuzanneR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,715
    Images
    135
    I love your photograph Alien! I shoot MF and 35mm with a Leica... quality all seems very close, though there is an undefinable clarity from my MF negs, that I don't quite get with the Leica. That said, there is an undefinable and expressive quality to the Leica negs. Both make for very satisfying darkroom sessions.

    I'm a hand holding, intuitive shooter... I expect you may be too, Alien. Enjoy the camera, can't wait to see more work in the gallery!
    Last edited by SuzanneR; 02-08-2006 at 10:18 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
    Daniel Lawton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    474
    Images
    26
    I have some photos shot with my Canon 35mm and a prime lens that are hard to tell from MF up to about 8x10. After that however MF holds an advantage since film size becomes the limiting factor and lens quality less so. Obviously limiting the size of grain isn't necessarily the primary goal of photography so if you love your Leica and it allows you to make effective photos than there's really no argument here. There's no denying that 35mm is a vastly more capable format for many situations whether it be a Leica or whatever.

  8. #18
    gnashings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,376
    Images
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    I told Don that I don't like to get involved in these arguments
    You could have fooled me, judging from your tiny little reply... to this argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    The problem comes when people apply theory blindly, without regard for practical circumstances, and willfully misprise what someone else has said..
    The only thing implying blindess is the absoulte disregard for pure and simple fact, backed by imperical data. You work in a physics lab, I assume NOT as a janitor, you should know what that word means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    This is more of a case of physics be exploited with less regard for cost than physics be damned.
    As opposed to those mass produced, econo-brand Zeiss lenses found on... oh, lets see... Hasselblads among others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    Don's not stupid or inexperienced, even if he is only a photographer.
    I don't know what you need to do in order to deal with your personal insecurities, but DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    The professor shot mostly MF and 4x5 for the work he regularly exhibited in galleries and museums. When he came to one of my 11x14 prints (a Perrier bottle on a brick ledge with weathered wood, an election sign, and a screened door) he stopped and did the close inspection routine that we all do when evaluating technical quality; you know... the viewing an 11x14 from a few inches routine. After a few minutes he said, "You shot this with a Hasselblad, right?" I told him (truthfully in case you want to question that) it was shot with a handheld CL and 40mm Summicron C. He then asked about film and developer and looked closely for a while longer. So in the real world, at 11x14, with an experienced judge, yes, a Leica lens can rival a Hasselblad, despite the belief that it can't happen because of theory or physics.
    In this case I would be much more inclined to see the state of the man's eyes than his academic standing. I find the very wording of it ridiculous: "...with a Hasselblad, right?". Should I believe that this deity with superhuman eyes can tell a Hassy picture apart from a Mamiya, or a Rollei? A THEORY is something that is backed by speculation and calculation. This is something that can be conclusively PROVEN. And if you don't want to look into numbers as means of judgement for some higher-level artistic reasons - fine. Sharpness is not the final judgement of an image. There is also tonality, etc., all impossible to duplicate with a smaller negative NO MATTER WHAT LENS you use to make it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    I have a number of other similar anecdotes, but of course they too are theoretically and sometimes practically impossible. I know because experts have told me so. Both Don and I, and perhaps others, will likely continue along blindly, doing what we aren't supposed to do....
    ... So I probably just don't know what I'm talking about and you should take me to task for being stupid.
    This is the part that takes the cake. Exactly how childishly insecure are you? That is what I take you to task for. If you also have the same complexes as to your IQ as you do in connection with your photography equipment, well, that is something that I have NO desire discussing. The statement to which any one with a brain would take exception was made as if factual and irrefutible. A is as good as B! No "ifs", "buts" about it. No disclaimers. Just a childish perpetuation of a ridiculous theory.

    That said, I count myself among great fans of Leicas. I love them. I truly envy those fortunate to have theprivealge of owning them and using them. One day, I am sure I will to. I feel just about the same way about Hassys. And when I own those cameras, I will also know that neither can rival even a very pedestrian LF negative. Will I care? No. Will I make ridiculous, sweeping statements? No.

    Enjoy your R6, Alien. Its an awesome camera.

    Peter.

  9. #19
    Gay Larson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,209
    Images
    22
    I sold my Leica R4 and I am still regretting it.
    Prints available in the APUG GAllery
    www.gaylarsonphotography.com

  10. #20
    rbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,222
    Images
    2
    I love shooting with my Leica, too.



    But, for photography, I prefer the M over the R. To me, an SLR excels at "practical" work, and I prefer an SLR with "modern" features that contribute to that style of work. So, I use Nikons for SLR work. Just personal style, though.

    Although physics still applies, there really is something special about Leica glass, whether on an M or an R, when compared to other 35mm lenses. For me, it's the balance between "character" and the science of resolution and contrast offered by the lenses.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin