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Thread: How fast?

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    What do you mean by bracing, is this some kind of technique or do you just mean jamming the camera against a light pole or something for stability?


    autofocus.


    Does it have any form of anti-shake or vibration reduction? It's the one technology that I'm jealous of DSLRs. I really wish you could use Nikon VR lenses on the F6 or SOME film camera.

    Actually, you can. The F5, the F6, and maybe the F4 (can't swear to that) will support VR lenses. You just can't use lenses designed only for DX sensor digital cameras because they don't cast a large enough image circle to cover the entire frame. There are VR lenses designed for the 24 x 36 mm. full frame format that can also be used on DX and FX sensor cameras.
    Frank Schifano

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by fschifano View Post
    As far as shooting handheld at speeds lower than 1/30 of a second goes, yes it can be done and it is easier to do with a rangefinder camera than it is with an SLR. The rangefinder camera has fewer moving parts, so there is less moving mass inside the camera to shake things up.
    The mass of those moving things is so small, the vibrations they can cause so insignificant, that the effect is completely lost in the huge movement your 'steady' hand will set and keep the entrire thing in.

    If you want to worry about a moving mirror, use a sturdy tripod first (not one of those carry-easy lightweight overly-expensive-carbon excuses for a tripod - though even such a thing is better than no tripod at all).
    Else, stop kidding yourself, believing that the type of camera - with or without mirror - makes any kind of difference at all.

    Lets put this myth to rest.

  3. #13
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    QG, are you suggesting that MLU is a gimmick?
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  4. #14
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    f1.2 canon FD

    First, in response to a previous reply.. the canon FD f1.2 lens is quite a bargain. Sales on ebay recently have been between $150-$200. And the FD f1.4 is downright dirt cheap. The difference between the two is only half a stop, so if the price is too much dont sweat it and at least get the f1.4 lens.

    Second, hand holding the camera down to slow speeds is possible if the subjects are stationary.. but people rarely are, even when posing.

    Third, stay away from the consumer fast speed films.. Kodak MAX and Fuji Superia. Get the pro Fuji 800 film (for color, i forget the name thouigh).

    Last, consider a flash. A shoe-mounted flash wont cause red-eye as much (or at all) as a on-camera flash. With some experementation you can get good results using it for fill. One of the issues with shooting color film indoors or in low light is the color balance. Incadescent bulbs produce an orange color and flourescent bulbs give a greenish cast. Flash will produce nice daylight balanced color even when used just for fill.

  5. #15

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    Tungsten film goes some way to removing the orange caste though I believe. So that helps in that respect.

  6. #16
    Rol_Lei Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    The mass of those moving things is so small, the vibrations they can cause so insignificant, that the effect is completely lost in the huge movement your 'steady' hand will set and keep the entrire thing in.

    Else, stop kidding yourself, believing that the type of camera - with or without mirror - makes any kind of difference at all.

    Lets put this myth to rest.
    Hmmmm.... I've used way too many different cameras and have noticed even major differences between their ability to get slow hand-held shots.

    But then, that might have just been a placebo effect...
    ;-)


    BTW, there is a simple test you can do:

    Attach a laser pointer to your camera and your camera solidly to your best non-carbon tripod. Aim the pointer at a wall a few meters away so that you can clearly see it.
    Fire the shutter...
    In many cases, you'd be surprised at just how much force those "small & insignificant" parts can exert.

    P.S. It can be useful to also use a very slow speed or "B" when doing this test, in order to differentiate between the mirror rising and returning (if present) and the shutter opening and closing.
    If your tripod really is good, then attaching the camera somewhat loosely can approximate hand-holding.
    Last edited by Rol_Lei Nut; 12-26-2008 at 05:35 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    M6, SL, SL2, R5, P6x7, SL3003, SL35-E, F, F2, FM, FE-2, Varex IIa

  7. #17
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    Press 800 is a great film. So is Pro 800Z, although I find the Superia to be sharper and have better grain (meaning more visible grain). You can get a lot out of these films, but you need to overdevelop them, and you need to print them with an actual enlarger to get the best results. You can easily underexpose Press 800 by 2 stops and get a printable picture if you push the film. There is also a Press 1600, though it is notably grainier than Press 800.

    For b/w, Delta and T-Max 1000 can be used at very high EIs, as they handle underexposure quite well due to their inherent low contrast. I routinely do what would be the equivalent of using Delta 1000 at 4000 and 2000, and fairly often at 8000. What I mean by "equivalent" is that in low light (and I mean LOW), I simply use the camera settings that I feel I need to use, and meter later in order to know how to develop the film. If I decide I need to be shooting at '250, I will open my lens up all the way, and shoot. Then, when I have the time, I will check with my meter (set at 1000) to see where certain tones will fall will that exposure. If they are falling too low, I will overdevelop the film.

    In dimly lit bars, I usually get EV 1 or 2 on a performer's face, if I can get anything. I try to use at least '250 when shooting moving musicians, but will often use '125 or '60, and sometimes will try a few at '30 or '15 if they are holding still for a spell. Pretty ugly EV if you want those shutter speeds, but the Delta gets printable shots anyhow. Thin, of course, but printable. In better lit venues, a 400 film will usually suffice for the stage, but I still use Delta 1000, as it handles high contrast better, and lets me shoot other things off stage that I would have a hard time getting with a 400 film.

    For lenses, I would say that the move from 1.8 to 1.4 is definitely worthwhile, as 1.4 lenses are plentiful and cheap. You should be able to get one for WELL under $50. As for the jump from 1.4 to 1.2, I personally think it is worth it. However, the 1.2 lenses are more expensive. If you want a 1.2 lens, my suggestion for a budget one is the pre-Aspheric model 55mm S.S.C., or one of the FL ones. I believe for FL there was a 55 and a 58. You should double check me on that, however.

    My main FD lens is the 55mm f/1.2 S.S.C., and I have been plenty happy with it. Just shot with it tonight, as a matter of fact.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 12-26-2008 at 06:03 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  8. #18

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    ***Third, stay away from the consumer fast speed films.. Kodak MAX and Fuji Superia***

    Well I got some nice results with Fuji colour 1600 asa, and it was 2 years out of date................if the subject is important (or just one chance) and you can't use flash, it is better to get something rather than nothing...and I would rather not have an underexposed negative.

  9. #19
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur2 View Post
    ***Third, stay away from the consumer fast speed films.. Kodak MAX and Fuji Superia***

    Well I got some nice results with Fuji colour 1600 asa, and it was 2 years out of date................if the subject is important (or just one chance) and you can't use flash, it is better to get something rather than nothing...and I would rather not have an underexposed negative.
    Who said to stay away from those films? They don't have a clue what they are talking about.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    QG, are you suggesting that MLU is a gimmick?
    No.
    I'm suggesting, no telling, that you need to put a camera on a tripod, else it will do no good at all.

    Nobody - absolutely nobody - can handhold a camera and move it less than a moving mirror would.

    This entire no-moving-mirror-makes-better-handholding thingy is silly. Extremely silly. It's time it stops.

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