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Thread: How fast?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rol_Lei Nut View Post
    Hmmmm.... I've used way too many different cameras and have noticed even major differences between their ability to get slow hand-held shots.

    But then, that might have just been a placebo effect...
    ;-)
    It indeed is.


    BTW, there is a simple test you can do:

    Attach a laser pointer to your camera and your camera solidly to your best non-carbon tripod. Aim the pointer at a wall a few meters away so that you can clearly see it.
    Fire the shutter...
    In many cases, you'd be surprised at just how much force those "small & insignificant" parts can exert.

    P.S. It can be useful to also use a very slow speed or "B" when doing this test, in order to differentiate between the mirror rising and returning (if present) and the shutter opening and closing.
    If your tripod really is good, then attaching the camera somewhat loosely can approximate hand-holding.
    Notice how you switched to "your best non-carbon tripod" for this test.

    Try it all again, handholding your cameras. (And don't waste your time 'approximating' hand-holding. What's the point???)
    Rid yourself of the false believes you opened your reply with!

  2. #22
    Rol_Lei Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    It indeed is.




    Notice how you switched to "your best non-carbon tripod" for this test.

    Try it all again, handholding your cameras. (And don't waste your time 'approximating' hand-holding. What's the point???)
    Rid yourself of the false believes you opened your reply with!
    Irony-impairment alert!

    Sigh! Some people believe that just because they say (or think) something, it *MUST* be true....

    BTW: I have taken one or two pictures hand-held in the past (irony alert on).
    M6, SL, SL2, R5, P6x7, SL3003, SL35-E, F, F2, FM, FE-2, Varex IIa

  3. #23
    Erik Petersson's Avatar
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    When I see something interesting I fire the camera, even on a shutter speed on half a second or the like. Sometimes I get away with it. With a few exposures the chance increases. But it is hit and miss on those speeds of course. Plus people may get blurry hands or heads etc.

    (Brace yourself or the camera against something and hold your breath while shooting.)

  4. #24
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    During Xmas, I shot about 6 rolls of family, nothing special, just snapshots. All B&W with my EOS SLR, ISO 400, F8, 1/15s shutter speed for everything, and flash...oh,and all handheld too. The images were exposed wonderfully, bright faces, no motion blur, no flash burn-in effect, fat depth-of-field to support a group of people, all natural looking comps. The point being, that flash can be used effectively, and to very good benefit and can allow one to (1) shoot with slow glass, and (2) shoot handheld resulting in no handheld nor mirror slap, nor subject movement blur. Granted these comps were nothing special, nothing artsy, but having the flash was great. Of course the way the flash head is postioned is very important too, as nearly all my shots were made with a bounced flash, and/or diffused flash, and except for one shot, never straight on naked head.

    The thing about available light is that when you shoot one person, you can get away with narrow DOF, and the fast shutter means your handheld and subhect motion can be frozen. However add a 2nd, 3rd, or more people and the required DOF means even a tripod will not save the day if the shutter speed is too slow. Lots of talk of the use of a tripod or ways to stead the camera, but how is that going to mitigate subject movement? It won't.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  5. #25
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    It indeed is.




    Notice how you switched to "your best non-carbon tripod" for this test.

    Try it all again, handholding your cameras. (And don't waste your time 'approximating' hand-holding. What's the point???)
    Rid yourself of the false believes you opened your reply with!
    So the when would you use MLU? Macro only perhaps? I know that for digital shots, not using the MLU when the camera is on a steady tripod will show blur at 100% and for sure at 200% on the screen. If the torque of the Mirrior shows just one pixel's width of movement, that is enough to soften a 16" x 20" enlargement, but will not show any effect at 8" x 10" or smaller. This is just what I've seen in my experience...
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  6. #26
    keithwms's Avatar
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    One invokes generalities at one's own peril, in these discussions.

    Better simply to offer one's own advice and evidence, and let it be.

    Use MLU and tripod whenever you can and if it suits the task at hand. It is also advisable to maintain a healthy diet and get regular exercise.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #27
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    What a stupid argument. Who the heck is going to use a stupid tripod to shoot people in a low light situation? People who take stupid, boring, terrible, cliche photos, that's who. Those fools who distract from the whole party, make themselves and their pictures the center of attention, and make me pray that I puke during the exposure...and then want to talk to you all night about a bunch of technical crap when they see you have a camera, and think YOU have a bad attitude when you say something to the effect of, "A camera is a camera". Who wants to look at a bunch of stupid people standing in a stupid group smiling at your camera that will end up printed on a plastic plate, stuffed in a drawer, left behind by your kids when you die, and sold for 5 cents to me at an estate sale? If you want stupid pictures of the family making a stupid pose for the album, just use a stupid point and shoot, and/or flash on your good camera. If you want to plan a group shot, sure, use your tripod; whatever. If you were going to do that, why would you need a fast film, though? That discussion belongs in the cheesy family photos forum, and makes no sense here. If you want candids of people in motion in available light, which has to be the issue here, as high ISO films are being discussed, you cannot use a tripod. What a stupid concept! Well, you can, but your pictures will be stupid, and suck. This is the same stupid point someone was trying to make in that other stupid post.

    Also, the idea that mirror slap makes no difference is ludicrous. Sometimes I wonder if the people who post this crap have ever taken a photo in the real world...and if they have, I wonder if they have ever printed them.

    Welcome to the Internet, where some stranger is always on a crusade of some sort...and just as ridiculous as the actual Crusades. "Lets put this myth to rest." "This entire no-moving-mirror-makes-better-handholding thingy is silly. Extremely silly. It's time it stops." What stupid, arrogant, absolutist statements based solely on one person's - excuse me, one stranger on the Internet who none of us know from Adam's - opinion! You ask a question about high ISO film and you get people saying that it sucks and asking why you would use it in the first place. You ask a question about whether you prefer high ISOs on digital or film, and you get someone telling you that high ISOs are for lazy people, and a devolution into a general film/digital debate. You mention that rangefinders shake less, and you get someone saying no, they don't, and you're an fool for believing that they do. Go figure. It is the same crap that 35mm shooters have had to deal with since day one from "real" photographers. You'd think over 75 years of stellar 35mm photography that knocks the sox off of anything shot on a tripod in this time would shut these "artists" and their technical arguments up....

    Happy fricking Boxing Day.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 12-26-2008 at 04:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

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  8. #28
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    Happy fricking Boxing Day.
    :rolleyes:

    And to you!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  9. #29

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    Well, 2F/2F,

    Try Rollei_nuts experiment, hand held, and then come back and use the word "crap" a lot again.

    And you're absolutely right: an awfull lot of utter nonsense is doing the rounds on internet.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    So the when would you use MLU?
    Every single time it makes sense.
    Which is very, very often.
    But not (!) when you are busy shaking the camera in your hands.

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