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Thread: Resurgence?

  1. #21

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    Technology will always move forward. Sometimes it's better. Sometimes it's just to get a new product on the shelf.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldie View Post
    I keep hearing about the great film comeback; all I can say is, it better get a move on before all the interesting emulsions get discontinued.
    I agree, and we have our work cut out for us.

    There are a fair amount of people in our camera club that are trying to sell 24x30's in galleries. Most are using 10-12mp cameras and crop significantly.

    This provides a great opportunity to talk about why somebody might want to use film and even large film and maybe even an enlarger.

    So I'm putting together a presentation to talk about the decisions we make to get to a truly great and fairly large print from a scene where you want 9-stops of detail, from choosing the best lens through choosing the enlarging process.

    I'm going to be fair to digital but I don't think that most of our members really even get how "DPI" really works.

    What I mean by that is most people don't get that a 10mp file cropped to 5mp won't have enough pixels to print a 300dpi 40x60 print.

    They don't get it because PS says it's at 300dpi at any size they view it and they don't get that when PS up sizes that 5mp file to 216mp for a 40x60 print that PS has to make 211,000,000 "educated" guesses to fill in the missing pixels/dots to get there.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prest_400 View Post
    Film was better for my use. It comes out good, no need for photoshop; I don't want to stay all the time editing the heck of the image for HDR the whatever. Negs are HDR. I wanted a durable camera (a DSLR becomes obsolete in a year or two, a film camera still goes well, and IQ is still outstanding.
    Amen.

    That is what our buddies need to know.

    My $80 N90s with some 400nc can compete nicely with any digicam.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #24
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    One of the best/broadest ways to look for decline or resurgence is in market prices and their trends. I watch these things to try to divine what's a good deal and when to buy/sell.

    Regarding film gear, I have not seen much movement in gear prices, just perhaps a few percent decline across the board. The deals on premium used film gear are still pretty good, though I suppose we have reached the stage that most of the people exiting film have already done so, hence prices have stabilized somewhat. Overall, the amount of used inventory seems to be a bit lower than it previously was (based on my casual browsing at KEH, adorama, B&H). That might be good news for someone looking to sell film gear, once people are spending again. But right now it's clearly a buyer's market.

    My guess is that the whole photo industry, from new & used camera sales to prints, is in very steep decline or at the bottom of the barrel at the moment. EK hasn't budged since the March slump; bucking the trend, FUJI is up quite a bit since then, but probably that growth is all coming from several other sectors e.g. archival storage, pharma and whatnot, and proximity to the Chinese market might well provide a further boost. Overall, the whole photo industry, being part of the consumer cyclical block, is down substantially and not showing much sign of life.

    One photo-related stock doing well is Shutterfly (SFLY), which is basically a social picture sharing and printing service. I think this tells us something. Obviously, when the cost of printers and ink and lab printing becomes excessive to the consumer, they look to put stuff on the web, and that has to be taking a huge chunk out of the print market. My guess is that a lot of photos simply aren't getting printed right now, especially digital. Must be a very tough time in the print industry right now.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  5. #25

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    I agree with you, Keith.
    The "trouble" for the industry is now that people are so used to make photo's for free that they expect prints for unrealistic prices aswell.
    If you just want photo's to put onto the internet then a compact or cell-phone will do.
    It is like in the day's of 110, Disk and 126: the quality does not matter as long as we have something to remember.....
    It is like a sine-wave: the upcomming and demise of a format; some formats like 35mm, 120/220 and 4x5/8x10 seem to be unaffected by it.

    For serious photography I believe analogue will be here to stay: digital can not handle everything.

    Just the other day an 18 year old showed his new self made 8x10 camera on the Large Format Forum: hart-warming and beautifull made.
    Getting our youngsters interested in analogue and it's posibilities will be the greatest chalenge for us.

    Peter

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by archphoto View Post
    I agree with you, Keith.
    The "trouble" for the industry is now that people are so used to make photo's for free that they expect prints for unrealistic prices aswell.
    If you just want photo's to put onto the internet then a compact or cell-phone will do.
    It is like in the day's of 110, Disk and 126: the quality does not matter as long as we have something to remember.....
    It is like a sine-wave: the upcomming and demise of a format; some formats like 35mm, 120/220 and 4x5/8x10 seem to be unaffected by it.

    For serious photography I believe analogue will be here to stay: digital can not handle everything.

    Just the other day an 18 year old showed his new self made 8x10 camera on the Large Format Forum: hart-warming and beautifull made.
    Getting our youngsters interested in analogue and it's posibilities will be the greatest chalenge for us.

    Peter
    If we've hit a longer-term tipping point in the global economy then I think discretionary consumables like film or printer inks are going to have a tough time of it. This is going to hurt any medium where the output is a reflection print; and that means digital as well as analog.

    You might, however, see new analog film cameras offered after dedicated digital film cameras are no longer available.

    Encroachment by smart phones, a transition to frame capture from video and a decline in disposable income around the world could really catalyze that process, too.
    Digital Photography is just "why-tech" not "high tech"..

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I'm starting to here people ask for simple cell phones that do nothing but make calls and last ten years.
    I have a cell phone that is only a phone. Never had one with a computer or a digisnap. I have mine set to not accept text messages. KISS!

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  8. #28
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    [quote=Prest_400;826098]It's ironic to see how old farts become "digitalibans" and we, the young "peeps", defend the film medium.
    /quote]


    I learned an new word today => digitalibans

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  9. #29

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    Cell-phones, cellulars, mobieltjes........
    I have one in Holland: speech and txt only, in Brazil the same, although my txt on my cellular is pretty useless: my portugese is not so good
    and in Holland I don't need txt on my mobieltje, the ones that want to talk to me give me a call, the ones that want to write to me send me a mail: just to keep things simple........

    Peter

  10. #30
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    What, you don't smsen on your mobieltje, Peter?! I *hate* long phone conversations and felt really relieved by how widespread texting is in the Netherlands! An amusing thing about dutch is that people in the south around R'dam will text w8ff to say "wait a minute" or kweetniej to say "I don't know"... but then they go to the bother of typing neeuh to say "no" or ookeej to say "ok." Texting always put a big smile on my face over there.

    Anyway, on the subject of film-derived output and the (re)entry of digital users into the film market: I am very disappointed by the continuing high price of the higher-end dedicated film scanners, and the lack of new products in that sector. E.g. the Nikons haven't budged one iota, and apparently some are not available at all. At the same time, the prices of used dedicated scanners has remained high and the used scanners have become quite scarce. This is not good at all for anyone wishing to go from digital -> film. It's basically killing that off IMHO. Too bad because newbies to film really need feedback over the web and some convenient way to see what they're getting without having to learn darkroom techniques or shell out big bucks for professional scans.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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