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Thread: Resurgence?

  1. #51
    glockman99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropline View Post
    I really believe digital P&S cameras are what is hurting the non pro film market...they're easily transportable.
    That's for DARN sure. It was tough watching all those folks with their very small, very light-weight P&S digital cameras, while I was lugging-around my Nikon F4s, Nikon F3HP with MD-4, 28-105mm & 50mm lenses, and 2 speedlights for 4 hours...(Yup, ALL of that equipment was around my neck.).
    Dann Fassnacht
    Aberdeen, WA USA

    glockman99@hotmail.com
    -------------------------------------
    My film cameras are all Nikons: F3HP, F4s, N90s, N8008, N8008s.

  2. #52
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Okay,

    We've established that the value of the average snap-shot (film or digital) isn't much, I'd say nearly nothing, if it's never printed. This is a good thing considering how unforgiving any given digital shot is. Once we enter the world of printing though, film and labs start to have real value.

    So, who might be interested enough in a particular shot or a print to start using film?

    I think there are a huge set of film prospects, like hoffy and his buddies who have the potential to become avid film users. One point I will concede to digital is that the instant feed back available makes a great tool for learning and experimenting. The narrow latitude of the medium is actually a plus in "good feed-back's" respect, fancy software that auto-fixes lousy shots is not.

    I've heard the comment made that "one day I hope to be good enough to use film". But I don't believe that.

    When I first learned about the latitude inherent in negatives it was a true OMG epiphany moment. It not only meant that I could have both shadow and highlight detail, it meant that I could relax more when I was shooting. If I missed the "perfect" exposure on a grab shot by a full stop, so what. No more bracketing, no more HDR.

    So where do we find more hoffy's?
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #53
    Chazzy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cropline;826364]
    Quote Originally Posted by Prest_400 View Post
    ......
    I believe it's curiosity.....

    Took a trip to Rocky Mtn. Ntl. Park last year.After getting my pictures and returning to my vehicle, a young, 21ish Navy seal saw my film camera and started really asking questions.Told him I could get really good 16x20's and if larger wall prints were desired, good 20x30" prints were possible from 35mm.He was amazed that a 35mm FILM camera could do that well.Said he would have to give film a try.
    I'm amazed too. I can't imagine displaying anything larger than an 11x14 enlargement from a 35mm original, even under the best of circumstances.
    Charles Hohenstein

  4. #54

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    [QUOTE=Chazzy;826748]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cropline View Post

    I'm amazed too. I can't imagine displaying anything larger than an 11x14 enlargement from a 35mm original, even under the best of circumstances.
    Canon FD 28mm, Fuji 200asa superior..a shot of my photo enlarged that I've posted here before. And the pic is cropped slighly and not the full neg.


  5. #55
    3 Olives's Avatar
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    My son finished a film camp called Basic Photography and Darkroom (grades 9-12) at the Light Factory in Charlotte on Friday. It is interesting to note that it was the first summer camp to fill up and had a wailtlist. They had a show of the students' work on Friday and I was very impressed. It was obvious that the instructor and her assistant loved what they were doing. She told my son she would set up an advanced course if he can find a minimum of four friends who would like to participate.
    My son attends the School Of The Arts in Charlotte and they can declare Visual Arts: Photography as a major in the ninth grade. The entire first year is film and darkroom.
    Their are kids out there who like film, but their are a number of obstacles. Equipment is hard to come by unless you you Know what to look for and where to find it. Charlotte is a fairly big city, but only Biggs Camera can really help if you want to buy film equipment. Fortunately, Biggs is first rate in every way. There is a steep learning curve for film compared to digital. A kid needs to be self motivated to want to use film. Access to a darkroom is not a necessity, but it is a huge bonus.

  6. #56
    rusty71's Avatar
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    I've been teaching a course in B&W photography this summer at a local community college. This is a full on, 3 credit hour 8 week class. I can tell you that a LOT of younger (24-30) year old photographers are getting back into film, and love the darkroom. I also have students doing Photo I digitally (don't ask how the curriculum got this mucked up...). But the film students are much happier overall with their work. I have one digital guy who is serious about his print craft. The rest are barely able to compose a shot with their crappy P&S digicams. One of my film students found a used FM2 at a local camera store. A few days later she had the money and went back to buy. It was gone. The sales guy said they "cannot keep used 35mm cameras in stock!" More encouraging is that he noted an increase in sales of B&W paper, chems, and supplies. He told her it was "mostly high school and college kids, working at home."

    Hard to say if this trend will continue given the wretched world economy. But at least the outlook is encouraging.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 Olives View Post
    There is a steep learning curve for film compared to digital. A kid needs to be self motivated to want to use film. Access to a darkroom is not a necessity, but it is a huge bonus.
    That's completely right.
    Our medium fulfilled what I wanted as a result; I loved my first results. Since yesterday, when Sirius said that It would be nice to extend the medium, I began to think: "would I find anyone with enough patience to go through this?"
    My learning process started 10 months ago, and it still continues.
    The digi convenience is a candy that is hard to leave, I decided to "throw myself to the pool" and I'm glad to have done this action; using film as my photographic medium. The results were enough motivation for using film.
    Considering how horrible are film services around here. I've been very motivated. One "Lab" brings back nice prints but scratched negatives, and the drugstore has a 2/3 week turnaround
    If I had a darkroom, or at least, some kind of developing equipment, I believe that I would be able to shoot more, and learn faster. The last roll that went into my camera late may is still there, around exp. 25. I'm experimenting with some inverted lens macros. Because outdoor shooting doesn't seem to be my type of photography at the moment.
    I have to ask my father about borrowing his card, "just for a moment"

  8. #58

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    [QUOTE=Chazzy;826748]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cropline View Post

    I'm amazed too. I can't imagine displaying anything larger than an 11x14 enlargement from a 35mm original, even under the best of circumstances.
    I knew somebody would be and you're not alone.The 16x20 referred to was shot on Kodak 160 VC before Kodak improved the grain and enhanced the negatives for better scanning.I don't know if the lab is using a one shot dip & dunk process,but I do know their images are quite good and the grain was very minimal.I'm critical where grain is concerned;to me,the finer the better.I can't speak to Fuji films as I use only Kodak pro films and professional labs.Try the same in your area and see if you get similar results.Sometimes the limits of a product must be tested to find its real capabilities.I have seen quite a few optical 35mm 20x30s.Some looked OK,some looked much better.Placed on a wall and viewed at say 6-8 feet,critical issues fade from perception.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    One point I will concede to digital is that the instant feed back available makes a great tool for learning and experimenting. The narrow latitude of the medium is actually a plus in "good feed-back's" respect, fancy software that auto-fixes lousy shots is not.
    I believe this is a myth in digital. Quick results does not equal quick learning. The cost of a mistake and potential cost of redoing it lends a lot more to learning and reflecting on mistakes than "delete photo."

    Baptism by fire has always been extremely effective as it requires greater user commitment.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  10. #60
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    I believe this is a myth in digital. Quick results does not equal quick learning. The cost of a mistake and potential cost of redoing it lends a lot more to learning and reflecting on mistakes than "delete photo."

    Baptism by fire has always been extremely effective as it requires greater user commitment.
    I agree that the whole "digital is good for teaching (film) photography skills" thing is overblown, and for another different reason. While there is no doubt some overlap in how cameras work, film capture and digital capture are completely different. So learning with digital teaches you a lot about digital, not necessarily about film. You are just putting off learning film; you are going to have start at the beginning when you start shooting film anyway.

    Sure, with digital you can shoot away and adjust your lighting and flash until it looks good on the LCD screen. But you can't do that when you are shooting film, so how is this helping you learn to shoot film? If anything, it's teaching you to be lazy, and shooting film is going to be even harder.

    Digitography teaches you a lot about digitography, fast. Photography teaches you a lot about photography, fast. Especially when you pull a roll of film off the reel and realize that you adjusted your exposure the correct amount for your filter factor...but in the wrong direction.
    f/22 and be there.



 

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