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Thread: Resurgence?

  1. #61
    hoffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    .....

    Sure, with digital you can shoot away and adjust your lighting and flash until it looks good on the LCD screen. But you can't do that when you are shooting film, so how is this helping you learn to shoot film? If anything, it's teaching you to be lazy, and shooting film is going to be even harder.
    I disagree. It all depends on the mentality of the person who is learning photography.

    Sure, I chimp when I shoot digital (why not use the tools available to you. Who uses (or used to use) a Polaroid back when setting up shots?), but why fill up my card with useless images, unless I have to. I bracket in film as much as I bracket in Digital, generally. The only main difference that I would reshoot a shot in Digital is on sharpness of the image, which at times you have to trust that you got right in film.

    Why do I bracket? In digital, its because I want to have the choice of the best image I can have, based on the different exposures (& No, I don’t HDR). In film, funnily enough, its exactly the same reason. Yes, Film has different characteristics (the old “3D quality of a film slide rings so true”) and these need to be learnt, but what does it matter whether its film or digital if you are trying to teach someone about DOF, composition, capturing action?

    I find this real funny. On the digicentric forums that I spend times on, I find myself defending film all the time. Now I cannot believe that I am now defending digital.

    And like I said on a digi forum once before, maybe, just maybe if people concerned themselves about the final output, we wouldn’t have to deal with arguments on what is better. Both have their place, deal with it and get out there and shoot!

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I believe the second driver is peer pressure. Nobody wants to be left behind or left out of the conversation.

    The big topics at the camera club I'm in all end up in PS. Fix it in PS is the norm and camera work is reduced to a wild and loose 9-frames-per-second in auto bracket with matrix metering shot in raw so it's fixable spray and pray style.

    Nothing wrong with being social around a common interest but most of these people came to the club to get better at photography.
    I am willing to come down to your neck of the woods for a meeting if you like, give my take on the industry, what the well known pros are doing and Even talk about the Kodachrome Project, put on a slideshow with my Leica projector if you think it would interest your club.

    Just let me know, I have a flexible schedule.

  3. #63
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffy View Post
    And like I said on a digi forum once before, maybe, just maybe if people concerned themselves about the final output, we wouldn’t have to deal with arguments on what is better. Both have their place, deal with it and get out there and shoot!
    Hoffy, that's just the thing, I AM concerning myself with the final output. It's why I choose to limit my "options" and focus on producing quality photography from the start. Your approach is based on shoot a bunch of things and sort it out after the fact - taking what works. Regardless of doing it in a piecemeal fashion or at the end, it's the same thing.

    Get it right the first time, pay dearly for your mistakes, and reflect on what worked and didn't work.

    In reality, some photographers reach a higher level of understanding and execution and some never do (perhaps were never meant to do, on that note).
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    I am willing to come down to your neck of the woods for a meeting if you like, give my take on the industry, what the well known pros are doing and Even talk about the Kodachrome Project, put on a slideshow with my Leica projector if you think it would interest your club.

    Just let me know, I have a flexible schedule.
    I'll ask on Thursday.

    Thanks
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #65
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Get it right the first time, pay dearly for your mistakes, and reflect on what worked and didn't work.
    clayne,

    As much as I believe in what you are promoting here for myself, people are different in how they learn.

    When shooting slides, which admittedly is rare (and frustrating) for me now, I will bracket because 1) there is so little latitude and the normal exposure methods I practice all the time for my 400nc and my Tri-X won't work and; 2) I find that I like a slightly darker slide in the projector and a slightly lighter slide if I want to get a print.

    If somebody wants to burn more film I say let them, their wallet will teach them a lesson too.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #66
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffy View Post
    ... but what does it matter whether its film or digital if you are trying to teach someone about DOF, composition, capturing action?
    At the most elementary levels it doesn't.

    When you switch from a DSLR to film though, you are generally changing format size. This affects DOF and lens purchases that will be made significantly.

    As to capturing action, the metering techniques I used for digital are way different than what I use now for C-41. The techniques are completely incompatible.

    On composition with digital I found myself composing and exposing by experimentation, clicking and chimping. I see my digital buddies do this all the time, it's the norm. We don't have that ability with film (I know, duh).

    This is what I believe clayne is getting at, with film you actually need to decide on composition with the viewfinder and set a workable exposure before the shutter drops.

    It is possible for digital to demonstrate a concept but really tough for digital to teach or apply that lesson in the real world.

    Example;

    I generally "shoot to the shadows" for negative film of any type (which is about all I shoot anymore) and I regularly and intentionally overexpose a stop or two depending on the shot. This style of shooting works for negatives but for digital or slides it's almost a guaranteed failure. I can show somebody the shadows I can get digitally but the highlights will be toast and they can't replicate the real effect themselves without shooting negative themselves.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #67
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    From looking through some great thinking in earlier posts, the only things that I can add is that:
    1. Photography (film or otherwise) has not replaced oil painting
    2. Similarly, pencils are still in stock in stationary stores
    3. Art stores and camera stores co-exist
    4. I'm sure that film will continue in various capacities
    5. It takes an independent mind to go against the flow to try something "different" (as in, not always following the current trend)
    6. I still want a Minolta Alpha 7 (aka Dynax 7)
    Film and digital; best of both worlds. JapanesePhotos.Asia.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by winjeel View Post
    From looking through some great thinking in earlier posts, the only things that I can add is that:
    1. Photography (film or otherwise) has not replaced oil painting
    Or even watercolor or crayons or charcoal.

    2. Similarly, pencils are still in stock in stationary stores
    Use them everyday.

    3. Art stores and camera stores co-exist
    Thankfully!

    4. I'm sure that film will continue in various capacities
    I hope so and if it doesn't we will adjust. Some entrepreneur will find a way to create something we can use with all these bodies we have been acquiriing.

    5. It takes an independent mind to go against the flow to try something "different" (as in, not always following the current trend)
    Amen to this!
    6. I still want a Minolta Alpha 7 (aka Dynax 7)

    Great body, especially when it is used with good Minolta/KM lenses. I just bought my third one of these bodies. I always wanted a Nikon F100 and and F4 so I bought them too. I also just acquired a Nikon N90s. Now I can go and enjoy all of them.
    My digital body has a non-functioning LCD. I still take it out with my film bodies to shoot (location and studio). I just set the ISO and shoot it with small modifications. I do not get to see the results until I get home. I don't get to chimp. I use my IV-F flash meter to set exposure. I do not bracket.

    I have to make adjustments for the F100 when I shoot transparencies. I just do. I don't squawk about it, I just make the adjustments. I do not own APS lenses.

    We can talk about this or we can shoot and have fun.
    Luke

    To create one's own world in any of the arts takes courage.

    Georgia O'Keefe

  9. #69

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    I love shooting film...and will for the rest of my life. But as much as I hate it, digital is where photography is heading. Film will be a medium in photography just as oil is to painting.

    I jump between film and digital.....film is my current bug.....but in reality what I really care about is the final image...and most people that see my work printed cannot tell if the final was made in a darkroom, or flopped out of an inkjet. As long as they like it, who cares where it comes from.....

    except me....

    My 8 year old niece has never seen a vinyl record....yet still loves her music.

    But I will say that I love you folks for keeping the analog world alive...so dorks like me can still get a little film fix now and again....

    Did I mention I love 2-Strokes.....
    Last edited by Screwdriver; 07-14-2009 at 08:02 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #70

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    I also live in Japan, and there is no shortage of people who carry film cameras. Photography is probably the most popular hobby in Japan, and there are countless camera and photography clubs. One of the good sides to this phenomena is that there is a huge amount of film equipment of all types available in the numerous used gear shops.

    Nikon of course has the largest following, followed by Canon, and then the rest. There are a few Nikon House stores in Tokyo which carry every imaginable Nikon camera, lens, and accessory, but other shops specialize in rangefinders, medium format, and large format.

    Being the nut I am, I visit these stores at least a couple times a month. They sell almost nothing that doesn't use film, and they do a brisk business. I have yet to visit such a shop and not see several other customers there.



 

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