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  1. #1

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    canon 1v vs canon eos-3

    what are the differences between the two? is the 1v worth paying double? any other info or resources would be appreciated.

    thanks

  2. #2

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    Build quality (better on the 1V) and weathersealing (only on the 1V). The 1V also has the higher max frame rate, but barely. The 1V can export shooting data to a computer via a special Canon cable and software package, but they are no longer available and apparently only 14 were made. The 1V is still in production (or old stock is available) and can be serviced by Canon. The 3 is no longer in production and I don't think Canon supports it. The 3 has the Eye-control feature which lets your eye choose the focus point. It's pretty neat and works well. The 1V does not have this ability.

    Only you can decide if the features of the 1V are worth twice the price. My vote is yes. I own a 1V, a 1N, and a 3, and the 1V is my favorite.
    In life you only get one great dog, one great car, and one great woman. Pet the dog. Drive the car. Make love to the woman. Don't mix them up.

  3. #3
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    Re: canon 1v vs canon eos-3

    1V is the best but 1N is not far behind and as such the best value. Only get one of these cameras if you're insistent on using EOS lenses otherwise get an FD mount or something else. IMO autofocus and film just don't go together.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    1V is the best but 1N is not far behind and as such the best value. Only get one of these cameras if you're insistent on using EOS lenses otherwise get an FD mount or something else. IMO autofocus and film just don't go together.
    One huge factor for me that keeps the 1N at home a lot is that the 1N doesn't have high-speed flash sync. Both the EOS-3 and 1V have it. It's a lifesaver on sunny days when you need some fill flash.
    In life you only get one great dog, one great car, and one great woman. Pet the dog. Drive the car. Make love to the woman. Don't mix them up.

  5. #5
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    1V = "better camera"
    3 = "better value" (probably the biggest bang for your buck in an AF SLR on the used market)

    They both have the same 45-point focusing area. Whether or not the computer programs that drive it are the same, I do not know, but they seem comparable in speed and accuracy (i.e., faster than you will ever need, and inaccurate unless you take decisive manual control of the AF system, like all auto focus).

    The 3 has ECF, which works fairly well in some situations, but I would not consider a decision maker. It sounds cool, but it is pretty primitive.

    The 3 does have weather sealing, though not the same weather sealing as the 1V (at least to my knowledge).

    Of course Canon still "supports" the EOS 3! They only stopped making it a short time ago.

    Whether or not you are shooting film should not affect whether or not you need/want autofocus. Your subject will determine that.

    With EOS 3s priced the way they are, I would only get a 1V if I was really going to beat the hell out of the camera day-in-day-out
    (or if it happened to come along for a song).

    My order of preference with the entire 1 and 3 series film cameras, cost aside:

    1V
    3
    1N (and 1N RS)
    1

    I really do not like the 1 and 1N very much compared to the later two.

    This is a brief and helpful page: http://www.photoethnography.com/Clas...html~mainFrame

    She sums up the differences as follows:

    "Why get the professional EOS-1v instead of the EOS-3?

    * Bragging rights
    * Finder eye-piece shutter (for macro or "hail-mary" shots)
    * Even better sealed against dirt/water intrustion
    * Don't have to worry about inconsistent eye-control-focus (ECF)
    * Even faster frame rates
    * Won't fog the very bottom of IR film frames
    * Heavier
    * Bragging rights

    Now that the EOS-1D Mark II is out, people who more money than brains have something else to worry about."
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-11-2010 at 04:29 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #6
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfeye View Post
    Build quality (better on the 1V) and weathersealing (only on the 1V). The 1V also has the higher max frame rate, but barely. The 1V can export shooting data to a computer via a special Canon cable and software package, but they are no longer available and apparently only 14 were made. The 1V is still in production (or old stock is available) and can be serviced by Canon. The 3 is no longer in production and I don't think Canon supports it. The 3 has the Eye-control feature which lets your eye choose the focus point. It's pretty neat and works well. The 1V does not have this ability.

    Only you can decide if the features of the 1V are worth twice the price. My vote is yes. I own a 1V, a 1N, and a 3, and the 1V is my favorite.
    Not true about weather sealing and the EOS 3....the EOS 3 does have weather sealing too, just not as robust as the 1V.

    Also, the EOS 3 is still serviceable by Canon USA. Canon still supports it too.

    In addition, the 1V can be used to shoot infrared film; the EOS 3 can't be used for this purpose.

    The best EOS body ever produced is the 1V, and I have two of those bodies, and three EOS 3 bodies. The 1V is worth the extra $$ IMHO, but the EOS 3 is no slouch.

    I love the Eye-Control-Focus Point selection on the EOS 3...it works great....frankly, the only EOS film bodies to own these days are the ones that support E-TTL, and those are just the EOS 3 and the EOS 1v as far as I know....I think the later Rebels/Elans do too.

    Which ever EOS body you get, I strongly advise you get the battery grip too...there are three types that fit both bodies...they hold AA batteries, which will be available long after the CR5S battery stops being made...

    I'd pass over the 1N and 1 because (1) they don't work with E-TTL flash logic, and (2) the flash sync speed is slower then 1/250s.
    Last edited by SilverGlow; 03-11-2010 at 04:26 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  7. #7
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I venture to suggest consider passing up either camera and go for the 1N.

    The 1N is still in demand for its simplicity; certainly, that's its strongest point compared to the excess of technology on the 1V (a quite heavy machine) and EOS 3 (as pointed out, uses the same IR sprocket pacing technology as the EOS 5, 50/50e et all, so no infra-red film capability).

    Not only are you paying double, but there is a very significant weight penalty. For bushwalking and travelling, this is something you have to consider, around 945gm or so for the 1V. Then add a lens. Or two. And...

    A flash sync of 1/200 on the 1N vs 1/250 is quite satisfactory for the vast majority of work if people would come to grips with photography at a professional, well-educated level. That means also skipping briskly over such novelties as eye control focus. Most of us remember how "clever" that was on the blighty EOS 5 (1994), then "improved" on the EOS 50/50E (1996), but in practice nothing but a distraction from the serious business of taking care of the scene you are looking at.

    I do second the remark to install a grip/drive to allow AA batteries over the inherently less robust and expensive 2CR5 things (lithium AA batteries are good for their light weight — though not all drives will allow lithium batteries to be used).
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  8. #8
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    That means also skipping briskly over such novelties as eye control focus. Most of us remember how "clever" that was on the blighty EOS 5 (1994), then "improved" on the EOS 50/50E (1996), but in practice nothing but a distraction from the serious business of taking care of the scene you are looking at.
    It is important for the OP to understand that ECF should really be called ECFPS: Eye-Control Focus Point Selection. All it is supposed to do is select a focus point, just like pressing the focus point selection button and then turning the dials. Additionally, even in AI Servo mode, it holds that focus point until you release the AF command again. It will not change points if you keep the AF command held down, and then look at a different AF point.

    So, ALL IT IS is a way to select a focus point. I think much of the disparaging commentary about it (though not yours, Poisson) come from ignorance of what the feature is actually supposed to do, unrealistic expectations of it, not reading the directions, failing to constantly calibrate in different lighting situations, etc. In short, being a dumb idiot causes people to call their camera a dumb idiot.

    Additionally:

    1. The ECF can only select small "bunches" of points, not an individual point. Within a selected "bunch", the computer decides which individual point to select.
    2. Therefore, it works more accurately for selecting individual points if you reduce the number of used focusing points to 11

    If it actually worked 100% reliably/controllably, it would be an endlessly helpful feature.

    The idea is brilliant. It takes away one of the major drawbacks of using AF in most situations (and by AF I mean single-point AF, as automatic point selection is entirely useless and unreliable, and worse than manual focus IMHO): that you must either focus/recompose, or fiddle about with a button and dials to select the desired focusing point.

    As I said in my first post in the thread, "The 3 has ECF, which works fairly well in some situations, but I would not consider a decision maker. It sounds cool, but it is pretty primitive."

    In short, it is a great idea, but poorly-implemented feature that is worth using in some situations. I am just sad that they never bothered to refine it. My guess is that the technology exists to make it better, but that it would be expensive, and that feedback on it from testers and consumers was poor.

    This is why I called the system "pretty primitive".

    Do I use it? YES. When I have time to fix it if it makes a mistake.

    Do I rely on it in a fast-paced situation? NO. I focus/recompose with the center point.

    I also calibrate it every time I pick up the camera, and usually a couple of times. I use channel 1 for my right eye and channel 2 for my left. The calibration is cumulative, and doing it often makes an enormous difference.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-11-2010 at 06:03 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  9. #9
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    It's very difficult (likely, impossible) to refine the non-linear behaviour of the human eye, which is perhaps why Canon did not take ECF any further. True, they did well in refining ECF from the blighty EOS 5 to the 50/50E (I used both models for 8 years during Degree studies).

    As time went on, I found (on the EOS 5 and 50/50E cameras) that it was making me look where I did not want to look. To this day, much of my interest is not central to the viewfinder but around the viewfinder. The 50/50E is still in wide use amongst students (APUGers, too!), a couple of students I've networked with recently do not use ECF, though very aware of its presence.

    ECF is a complication in specific circumstances e.g. perspective control lenses (true, you can turn ECF off). As an example, Canon's TS-E lenses require critical focus (at least the MF-models do). Often, this focus is away from the central area of 5 points (on the 1N or the 45 on the 1V/3 (the latter which does not have 100% viewfinder coverage is a hindrance). I have seen it demonstrated that using a TS-E lens on the 1V (like the 1N) with focusing points superimposed in red will cause 'twitch-arraying' of multiple points as tilt (especially) is introduced — the camera literally has no idea where to focus (so focusing is done extra-visually). Even on the 1N, the frantic flickering of points (any number) as the tilt (or shift) is brought in can be extremely annoying. I mention this from professional experience. It would be good to have a little button (just one button, rather than a sequence) to instantly switch off superimposition of points during technical focusing — when AF is also a hindrance.

    Of course the 1V is very weather proof, if that's a bragging point. But do you actually shoot your masterpieces in torrential rain? Well, I do (not actually planned by choice!) and I'll tell you it's just patently bloody awful with everything else to concentrate on — where my feet are, getting saturated and cold, rain-speckled lens — eugh and ugh—!) . Just because a camera is weather proof doesn't mean you should blithely allow it to remain wet.

    Beware of weights for Canon's top guns. To give you some idea of baseline weight, an EOS 1V is around 945gm. My EOS 1N is 2.23kg with PDBE1, TS-E24L (I prefer the 17-40mm for a bit lighter load)! Now add your fav. optic to the 1V and do the math. Suggest you run your eyes and fingers over several well-kept curvaceous bodies (we are speaking about cameras, please!) and let the mind decide, but not the heart.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  10. #10
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Reading your post, perhaps another problem with ECF is that people assume it should be used 100% of the time, and that it is a total AF solution for perfect results all the time. (This falls into my "unrealistic expectations" category.) It is nothing but a tool; a feature. It has an on/off switch for a reason: to use it when you want to, and not use it when you do not want to.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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