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Thread: 35mm SLR - why?

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    This is off topic, but I really don't understand this problem. Why isn't it a cakewalk for someone to produce a good d*g*t*l rangefinder? It seems like all you have to do is stick a CCD where the pressure plate would be.
    The physics of light and the (typically) much smaller distance between the lens exit pupil and sensor limit the usable size of the sensor without custom adjustments.

    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    (Actually, for those of us who love our film cameras but occasionally have a use for a digital image, why can't someone produce a CCD with the same form factor as a roll of 35mm film? Stick it in your existing camera and you're set.)
    It would be great if it were that simple! However the camera and electronic stuff need to communicate with each other. Most older cameras lack the communication interface.

    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Why did we spend the last thirty years watching our cameras grow more features?
    For the same reason pimped-out luxury SUVs became popular?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    This is off topic, but I really don't understand this problem. Why isn't it a cakewalk for someone to produce a good d*g*t*l rangefinder? It seems like all you have to do is stick a CCD where the pressure plate would be. (Actually, for those of us who love our film cameras but occasionally have a use for a digital image, why can't someone produce a CCD with the same form factor as a roll of 35mm film? Stick it in your existing camera and you're set.)
    Leica has one, the M8, which produces digi-snaps with a unique magenta cast.

    Steve
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    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    This is off topic, but I really don't understand this problem. Why isn't it a cakewalk for someone to produce a good d*g*t*l rangefinder?
    It's a technical issue, the distance between rear element and film is very short in a rangefinder, and whereas film has a layered structure, most of the sensors out there have the Bayer structure, so you get massive chromatic aberration if you don't correct for it e.g. with microlenses and appropriate firmware. Then there was the issue of not being able to get a hot mirror in there to reject IR, yadda yadda, let's not talk about it here. Shoot film and be happy and least until all the bugs have been beaten out of the black box.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  4. #64

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    That is like asking if all things were equal would you shoot APS or 35mm film.

    With D-SLR just about anything out there that is amateur reasonable in price has an APS film size sensor, if you are willing to go used, or spend around $3000 you can get a true 35mm size sensor, but this is a hobby for me, I'm saving memories and decorating the house, not putting food on the table and a roof over my head.

    With the Digital revolution came a lot of really cool film camera toys that make a new 35mm a joy to shoot with, add on that great big true 35mm sensor that gets cleaned every time you advance the film for minimal dust in the frame problems and wow. Also there is that whole what film do I want to use to get what effect thing, sure you can do that in digital post, but really it will only be film like. And forget long exposure with digital, it will look worse than your TV did before cable. Also if a film camera dies, it can only take 36 of your photos max. A 35mm film camera that you could only dream about 10 years ago because it cost almost as much as a car was replaced with a better model that you can pick up used for far less than a car payment, in some cases less than lunch.

    I have several digital cameras, mostly point and shoots, but they are all great cameras. I have a Nikon D70 that I love, and one great thing about it is that if I am trying something new and I want to experiment I can shoot a lot of frames to see just what I need to do, it is a huge learning time shortener (not curve, just time). Another thing I like about my D-SLR is vacation, On my last vacation I shot about 200 frames of film both medium and 35mm format, but I shot over 1000 frames of digital total. My D-SLR took up about the same space as my film alone.

    I just like film better. Film has advantages and disadvantages, but it is the medium I choose to express myself in.

  5. #65
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    Let me add (or restate) one more reason to get a film slr: I think it is very comforting to use a tool that I understand completely, down to the last screw. It might be the scientist in me, but I don't like to use black boxes and then have to wonder how much of my photograph is me and how much is some algorithm in the black box. You can become the master of a black box, even a current dSLR, but as a solid state physicist, I don't like the black boxiness one bit, and it bugs me to use something that is designed to think for me. So when I need my d$lr, I go out with every damn feature turned off, using my old manual nikkors It's kinda ridiculous... but hey Nikon never asked me what 'features' I can live without :rolleyes:
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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    Simply put, the one argument that will brush anything else aside:

    BECAUSE I CAN!
    :-))

  7. #67
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    I bought a D300s recently to cover the "fast and automatic" stuff. Otherwise I shoot medium format or rangefinders. The D300s is terrific, but I'm finding that it's not much fun. I'm not sure if it's the digital part or the SLR part I'm struggling with. To find out, I ordered a minty F100. It's "Full frame," has good meter, fast focus, and tough build. It's basically the D300s without the convenience or decent high ISO capability. I like film, which is why I think (I hope) the F100 will be more fun.

    Besides, I paid $200 for the F100, which is $1500 less than the D300s. That's a lot less.

  8. #68
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    I shoot with my Canon EOS 1v film SLR 99% of the time; and shoot with my Canon EOS 5D DSLR 1% of the time.

    Why?

    Simple: Because film provides 1.5 to 2 stops wider Dynamic Range, and tonal graduations and color are better to my eye with film.

    I don't hate digital, and frankly I have the utmost respect for digital as a medium. However I have a strong preference for film.

    Now when it comes to resolution, a full frame 21mp DSLR kills 35mm film, but regardless, I'd rather shoot with 35mm film. To me, dynamic range and tonal quality are more important.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Let me add (or restate) one more reason to get a film slr: I think it is very comforting to use a tool that I understand completely, down to the last screw. It might be the scientist in me, but I don't like to use black boxes and then have to wonder how much of my photograph is me and how much is some algorithm in the black box. You can become the master of a black box, even a current dSLR, but as a solid state physicist, I don't like the black boxiness one bit, and it bugs me to use something that is designed to think for me. So when I need my d$lr, I go out with every damn feature turned off, using my old manual nikkors It's kinda ridiculous... but hey Nikon never asked me what 'features' I can live without :rolleyes:
    Black box help is not so bad. At the end of the day, it still takes the human to compose the picture, and composition is the one thing that no camera can do for us. Still, the journey (camera workflow) is half the reward (the picture) for many, and I understand that.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    ...most people coming from digital will be used to quite a bit of automation....

    -NT
    This is mostly false, what you wrote.

    You have this dillusion that somehow a DSLR is more "automated" then an SLR.

    Where did you get this wrong information?

    My Canon EOS 1v SLR is just as "automatic" as most DSLR's! The major difference is that one captures the light on film and the other an Analog (not digital) sensor.

    Both bodies have Av, Tv, P, M, and both can operate full manual or full auto.

    So no, a DSLR use will not have to make do with less automation if he goes to shooting film.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.



 

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