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Thread: 35mm SLR - why?

  1. #71

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    Why? Film. It gives me a physical image, not a computer file comprised of 1s and 0s.

  2. #72

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    (on my point that digital emigres will be accustomed to automation)

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    This is mostly false, what you wrote.

    You have this dillusion that somehow a DSLR is more "automated" then an SLR.
    No, that's not my point. You're taking one statement out of context---what I said is that the various automatic bells and whistles of a high-end SLR aren't strictly necessary, but are probably expected features for most people coming from digital. Which is one reason that a digital emigre might want to use one of those cameras.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
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  3. #73
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    On this subject of automation, sometimes auto is the sensible choice. I am not against automation when I want it.

    What annoys me is that there is no really simple, beater d$lr that compares to my fm2n or oly om1 or xa or such- simple, inexpensive little pieces that I can take with me into knee deep saltwater without a care... and still expect topnotch results.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    Black box help is not so bad.
    Yeah, an experienced photographer will have a vision and that vision will rise above pretty much any technical encumbrances. The vision exists completely apart from the gear.

    <rant>

    But, as a teacher, I assert that black boxes are the absolute enemy of education. I am just old enough to have participated in the transition from pencil 'n paper education to computer- and web-based learning. I did both, and I definitely felt the difference. It horrifies me how we (teachers) have thrown hands-on "analogue" learning away. And this is usually done to save money, effort and time rather than for any real educational benefit. I see very clear evidence of the harms of automation in the d$lr-based photography of today.

    </end rant>
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  5. #75
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    But, as a teacher, I assert that black boxes are the absolute enemy of education
    I slightly disagree. Black boxes change the perspective of education so that the old handraulic ways are used to check/justify the new, but are not necessarily used as the primary means of calculating/using whatever it is we are talking about.

    Two examples:- I am old enough to have navigated merchant ships just using a sextant and log tables etc. Sat Nav didn't exist. You HAD to get the longhand calcs right or you were potentially on the rocks. I am sure they still teach this, but it is no longer the primary method. Navigators now navigate using electronic aids and have to learn all the new techniques surrounding the high tech equipment. So in effect they have to learn *more* - both the old ways and the new. Similarly my son is studying structural engineering. He is having to learn structural calculations long hand from basic mechanical principles. he will *never* do this in the real world - computers do it all using complex programs which he will have to learn how to use.

    Surely it is the same with photography? To be a truly competent professional (not that I am) in today's photography world, you have to understand both the old ways *and* the new d****l ways, so surely more has to be learned, not less?

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Yeah, an experienced photographer will have a vision and that vision will rise above pretty much any technical encumbrances. The vision exists completely apart from the gear.

    <rant>

    But, as a teacher, I assert that black boxes are the absolute enemy of education. I am just old enough to have participated in the transition from pencil 'n paper education to computer- and web-based learning. I did both, and I definitely felt the difference. It horrifies me how we (teachers) have thrown hands-on "analogue" learning away. And this is usually done to save money, effort and time rather than for any real educational benefit. I see very clear evidence of the harms of automation in the d$lr-based photography of today.

    </end rant>
    Do you mean operating "virtually" rather than in the tangible world?

    Tom

  7. #77

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    Wow,that's a bit of a tough one. I had to think about it!

    Let's look at the EOS-1V. I have one, and I have a few DSLRs. The true advantage of buying a 1V today, assuming you buy used, is price-performance. For $400 you get a full-frame camera that can use all of Canon's EF lenses and EOS flashes. You can certainly equal the image quality of a 1V with even low-end DSLRs so it's not that, assuming you could live with a crop-sensored camera, but you'd not get a robust body that can take punishment and still keep working. To get the equivalent build quality in a DSLR you'd spend 12x as much, minimum.

    Any argument about "film" fails in that you can buy a much less expensive camera than a 1V and record superb images. You asked why one would buy a 1V or F6, not why one would chose film.
    In life you only get one great dog, one great car, and one great woman. Pet the dog. Drive the car. Make love to the woman. Don't mix them up.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr rusty View Post
    Black boxes change the perspective of education so that the old handraulic ways are used to check/justify the new, but are not necessarily used as the primary means of calculating/using whatever it is we are talking about.
    Unfortunately, that isn't my experience. There is a scary level of faith that the computer and the web can answer anything. If Apollo 13 had happened to this generation....

    Sure there are exceptions, but on the whole, virtual education has taken away many necessary hands-on experiences, because computerized education is a lot less expensive. There is growing objection to computer/web-only instruction, but I'm afraid it'll take a long time for people to realize what their kids are missing. Maybe when we start buying our spacecraft and nuclear reactors from China.... in ten years or so....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kershaw View Post
    Do you mean operating "virtually" rather than in the tangible world?

    Tom
    My main fear is that the virtual world lacks many of the complexities and nuances of reality and thus students simply aren't prepared for them. Intuition is something that can really atrophy if it isn't exercised daily!
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  9. #79
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  10. #80

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    Folks, the OP explicitly wasn't asking "why film rather than digital", but "why a spiffy bell-and-whistleful film SLR rather than some other film camera". I assume we all agree that there are lots of reasons to shoot film!

    -NT
    Last edited by ntenny; 06-08-2010 at 03:09 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: misstatement of original question (ironically enough)
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_



 

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