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Thread: 35mm SLR - why?

  1. #81
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Yeah, an experienced photographer will have a vision and that vision will rise above pretty much any technical encumbrances. The vision exists completely apart from the gear.

    <rant>

    But, as a teacher, I assert that black boxes are the absolute enemy of education. I am just old enough to have participated in the transition from pencil 'n paper education to computer- and web-based learning. I did both, and I definitely felt the difference. It horrifies me how we (teachers) have thrown hands-on "analogue" learning away. And this is usually done to save money, effort and time rather than for any real educational benefit. I see very clear evidence of the harms of automation in the d$lr-based photography of today.

    </end rant>
    I will agree with you that automation can be bad for learning; during the learning process. But at some point that educational track must show how automation can be used to the benefit of the photographer's vision; late in the curriculum.

    A case in point to this is the fact that the majority of SLR & DSLR shooters will shoot in P mode 100% or near that often, and place all aspects of the camera workflow in full automatic....and they've done this for years and even decades....this auto mode shooting has held them back from learning anything the entire time...imagine shooting an SLR for 20 years and the amount of learning is akin to taking the first year twenty times! There are high end DSLR/SLR shooters that may as well own a P & S model for the way they use their high tech high end gear....and they are often so proud of their "baby"....what a waste of resources!

    In my own journey, my learning didn't turbo into high gear until I started shooting in full manual mode, and using the best practices that Canon (in my case) has outlined in several white papers. Another reason I have gotten good with camera workflow is that I did a lot of learning with a DSLR, which gave me immediate feedback to whatever set up I was playing with. This immediate feedback can turbo charge one's learning fast...then I took those learned lessons and applied many of them to analog shooting, and for this reason I feel very confident about manual exposure when shooting with a film body...I no longer need an LCD to confirm the results....but I don't begrudge DSLR shooters for their LCD either, as is the case with many film nazi's.

    For me, the final frountier is composition....anyone can be taught to master camera workflow, composition is the hardest aspect of photography, and the one thing most of us will never master. I myself have a lot of opportunity for improvement in composition, which I find the greatest challenge.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  2. #82
    rjbuzzclick's Avatar
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    Personally, I prefer the feel of a mechanical camera over one with menus and automation. When I do shoot digital, I use a manual focus, manual aperture lens, and run the camera on Manual Mode 99% of the time.
    Reid

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjbuzzclick/

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  3. #83
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    I'll just add that ceding some decisions to a modern, highly automated body can be cathartic. I generally enjoy working more deliberatively and manually, and 'fast' for me is an rb67. But sometimes I get stuck in a rut, the gear feels like its taken over the creative process, and scenes seem simply to pass by, right and left. At that point, going out with my f100 is helpful. The f100 takes care of (almost!) all the technicals and it's just instinct, don;t even have to bother too much with framing the shot. So I am certainly not one to diss aperture priority or matrix metering or focus tracking and such; without tools like that, there are some shots that simply cannot be taken, at least not reliably.

    Silverglow, I think we are in general agreement, I carefully composed that disclaimer at the topic of the section you quoted
    Last edited by keithwms; 06-09-2010 at 02:01 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    I'll just add that ceding some decisions to a modern, highly automated body can be cathartic. I generally enjoy working more deliberatively and manually, and 'fast' for me is an rb67. But sometimes I get stuck in a rut, the gear feels like its taken over the creative process, and scenes seem simply to pass by, right and left. At that point, going out with my f100 is helpful. The f100 takes care of (almost!) all the technicals and it's just instinct, don;t even have to bother too much with framing the shot. So I am certainly not one to diss aperture priority or matrix metering or focus tracking and such; without tools like that, there are some shots that simply cannot be taken, at least not reliably.

    Silverglow, I think we are in general agreement, I carefully composed that disclaimer at the topic of the section you quoted
    Where can one find a forum on composing? I realize one can find threads dedicated to certain genre's such as portraits, landscapes, street, the list goes on....but none of these really discuss composition directly...the elements of a picture, etc...even those specialized threads are still too hardware centric...
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    I love most of the advanced features of my EOS 1v SLR and my DSLR's too...making the switching from one body to the other easy.
    How do you feel about the EOS-3 mentioned in your signature? I've been thinking about picking one up precisely in order to have a more automated film body (e.g., for flash use) and a film platform for my EF lenses, but I don't have a very good idea of what it would be like in use.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
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  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    This is mostly false, what you wrote.

    You have this dillusion that somehow a DSLR is more "automated" then an SLR.

    Where did you get this wrong information?

    My Canon EOS 1v SLR is just as "automatic" as most DSLR's! The major difference is that one captures the light on film and the other an Analog (not digital) sensor.

    Both bodies have Av, Tv, P, M, and both can operate full manual or full auto.

    So no, a DSLR use will not have to make do with less automation if he goes to shooting film.
    Quite right, in fact when I got my latest SLR the main thing I was looking for was for all the knobs buttons and dials to be as close to being in the same place as they are on my DSLR as possible. I will probably try out all the automated modes on the SLR one of these days, but I have a feeling that I won't like them on film just as I don't like them in digital. All I ever use is M, A, S, & P, as for the rest I could care less, I tested them, and found that I could set the camera for the same effect custom with my own tweaks just as quickly myself.

  7. #87
    SilverGlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    How do you feel about the EOS-3 mentioned in your signature? I've been thinking about picking one up precisely in order to have a more automated film body (e.g., for flash use) and a film platform for my EF lenses, but I don't have a very good idea of what it would be like in use.

    -NT
    The EOS-3 is a great SLR. I've had 3 bodies for years....about 6 months ago I purchased 2 1v's and prefer those for their more robust build, and how they feel in my hands. Still, you can't go wrong with the EOS-3.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    Where can one find a forum on composing? I realize one can find threads dedicated to certain genre's such as portraits, landscapes, street, the list goes on....but none of these really discuss composition directly...the elements of a picture, etc...even those specialized threads are still too hardware centric...
    Well I would say start a thread and there will be lots of suggestions.

    Of course, there is no magic formula for composition. Even if there were, everyone would immediately exhaust it and it'd need to be replaced by something else. Nevertheless, there are some fundamental ideas and principles that I am sure many of us verbose apuggers would be delighted to discuss
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  9. #89

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    I use a EOS 3 because I need fast AF for certain bits of photography. Simple as that!

  10. #90
    agw
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    Quote Originally Posted by rippo View Post
    Yes! That's what I was asking. Shooting film goes without saying. It's the reasons for shooting the particular sub-category of camera I'm curious about. I'm trying to imagine a digital-born-and-raised photographer who says "hmm, film…I want to try it."
    ...
    The reasons are the same as they always were: flexibility. Flexibility is the reason to choose a 35mm SLR over a 35mm rangefinder in the first place, and flexibility always was the prime reason to choose a high-end "pro" 35mm SLR body over a "lower" one.

    Interchangeable viewfinders and focusing screens, exact framing, high-power autowind options, high-performance AF, lately custom functions, and the wide range of system accessories available for this class of body were always intended to offer the maximum flexibility to adapt the body to the "job".

    While the 35mm rangefinder is sufficient for many applications, and even superior over the SLR for some, the 35mm SLR wins for overall flexibility, with the "pro" body taking 1st place:
    • You can use a shift or tilt/shift lens on the SLR. Try this with your rangefinder...
    • I currently use the F5 (IMO the peak of 35mm SLRs) as my primary body. Currently, it has a G2 focusing screen and a 50mm 1.4 ZF.2 mounted - combining the best of the two "mondern interface" and "traditional MF feel" worlds.
    • I can mount a 300mm lens (and if necessary TC) on the F5 and shoot birds-in-flight or other action at 7+ fps. Again, nothing for rangefinder land.
    • The 35mm SLR takes a wide range of macro options - dedicated macro lenses (available in multiple focal lengths, extension tubes, bellows, microscope adapters,...). Again, this makes it more flexible than the rangefinder.
    • The high-performance AF system of the F5, F6, or 1v make them the natural choice if you have to rely on really good AF performance.
    • This class of body being engineered for durability, they can swallow a high amount of "normal" use, or even abuse.

    I could add much more points, but I think i've made the point already.

    I (currently) prefer the F5 over the F6 because I have it, but I'd consider picking up an F6 in the future if the right "occasion" comes by. Both have different strengths and weaknesses. And, if I were to pick up a Canon SLR, the 1v would be the only sensible choice, IMO.



 

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