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  1. #71
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Sorry I should add this to show some historical perspective .

    1990 started business - 10 other competitors- Film and contact %

    1991-94/5 -60% of gross
    1995-2000 - 35% of gross
    2000-2003 - 15% of gross
    2003 -2007 - 5% of gross

    2010 - 1% of gross

    1 or 2 other labs still offering quality film process.

    ***these numbers are not exact but pretty close****

  2. #72
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    If this is not the case in Austrailia then I am very sceptical, but happy for you.
    I do not know of any commercial photographers in the GTA *4.5 million souls* not using either phase or high end digital DSLR.

    Theres no need to be skeptical, Australia is a tiny market and certainly the bulk of professional photographers shooting commercial jobs down here are using high end digital. Its lucky I have a global portfolio of commercial clients sending me analog work from many different countries.

    A portion of this market has declined into digital and a tactic I took when observing this transition was to focus on other markets for film photography. I have focused very heavily on the global Art Market. A sector which is very demanding of very high quality but is also Thriving when it comes to film and traditional printing.

    The fact is my business survives 100 percent from film processing and printing. Many of the jobs I do are coming in from international clients. I think its essential for any business who wants to keep film alive and thriving to adapt to market changes and I don't feel I'm the only lab making most of its profit from a very healthy film market. At a guess I would say this is also the case for labs like Dr5 and Dwayne's etc... (I apologize profusely if this isn't true for their businesses).
    Last edited by Stephen Frizza; 07-26-2010 at 09:28 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  3. #73
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I think all the labs I listed work globally, mine included, I am glad for you that you are so busy with film processing , your company is indeed a niche service if you offer no digital whatsoever.

  4. #74
    CGW
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    Anyone processing and printing from film is a niche player. Still, remarkably few--if any--labs here in the Toronto area make much effort to reach film shooters and assume they're extinct or eccentrics best avoided. Ed Burtynsky's Toronto Image Works(TIW) is well-known for his personal work and quality service. Bob Carnie's irascibility aside, his shop is well-known among a far smaller clientele than TIW. Why? Probably lots of reasons(certainly nothing to do with quality) but I'm not sensing much film friendliness or much interest in expanding it. Dr5 seems quite healthy.

  5. #75
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I think all the labs I listed work globally, mine included, I am glad for you that you are so busy with film processing , your company is indeed a niche service if you offer no digital whatsoever.
    I do have some digital equipment and have done so for some time though these pieces of equipment are only placed into operation under special request by clients (an event which is uncommon). These items include :

    A flextight 848 for mid level scanning and an epson V-700 for proof scanning.
    i did own a Linotype-hell drum scanner with drums capable of holding works up to A2 in size...i binned it last Christmas.

    I have a Kodak LVT Film recorder for printing digital files back to film. Allowing for analog prints from digital with the beautiful qualities of analog being
    re-introduced.

    Alternatively I have a share in a durst lambda for printing out digital files.

    I also own a Fuji Frontier (currently in storage) and a Noritsu minilab printer which is in use.

    Another digital accessory I have is an Epson 44" Inkjet printer for more serious inkjet work and a canon pixma 9500 to print out basic images (mainly to draw job briefs on)

    These along with a few other digital machines I have sitting around the place are side line parts to the company. They account for such a tiny part of business income I just dont care to consider it a source of profit (though it marginally is).

    So many other businesses have invested in these digital technologies there is no point in me offering them as the bulk of my business. No matter how well I could do it the quality of digital just isn't there when compared to the analog results that stand next to it.

    This being said though, they are used. For example when clients needs scans from film to match exhibition prints then i will do the scans for them. But in the end of the day digital machines just doesn't make the grade for the qualities my clients demand.

    I feel quite sad hearing you think film is a niche market because it really Isn't. Just look at APUG with its excess of 40,000 subscribers from all around the globe. Film is an multinational, intercontinental billion dollar industry. There is more film choice than ever and so many options for print output. Now is the time to embrace analog. Its survived the digital onslaught, It's become more accessible (thanks digital for making analog equipment sooo much cheaper) and with a new generation having grown up on digital they are now seeking out what can set their images apart from other peoples...the answer lies in film! Holgas, Lomos have been a huge launch pad for the new film users and they are now moving onto more sophisticated cameras (which are now far cheaper than a decade ago) without the same fear of the unknown that has been held with past generations. This trend it only going to increase.

    Traditional Analog film processing and printing isn't a niche market. Its a specialist field but hasn't it always been?
    Last edited by Stephen Frizza; 07-27-2010 at 11:25 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  6. #76
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Stephan

    I love film, but I think that maybe you are over estimating the marketplace, I wish it wasn't so but I was operating my business in the late 80's and 90's when film really was king.
    We were doing 200 rolls a day, processing and contacting 24/7 most months of the year.

    It's kind of silly to suggest we live in that era now. And I am kind of getting tired of you telling me how great things are for film business. I am happy for you with all the film business. It must be nice.
    I have worked in a Metro Area with over 4 million people my whole adult working life , maybe Toronto is different from New York , LA or London. Maybe all the pro's there are shooting film. I must have my head in the sand.

  7. #77
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    The only one thing that has dropped dramatically is the manufacutre of 35mm SLR cameras. Luckily, there is still quite an array of rangefinders, MF SLR, Rolleiflex TLR, large format cameras still being manufactured. It's still a wonderful marketplace. Most of the cameras left seem to be high quality machines.
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  8. #78
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    I think everyone has had there say, and there are a number of labs suggested for the OP. So, I think it's time to close this thread.

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