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  1. #21
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    It is just a rule of thumb anyhow, so isn't universally accurate; only better than nothing for those who have not yet found out for themselves. I find hand holdable speeds to vary from camera to camera, and even from shot to shot with the same camera, depending on how it is being held.
    For me, it depends on what is in the shots!


    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  2. #22
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    With a larger format a simple variation is greater the further from the axis.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    I don't get your point with the part underlined by me.
    Think of photographing a moving propeller on a plane, the centre will look sharper than the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Any base tilt or central swing of camera body will have practically* the same effect with any format, as long as the angle of view is the same.

    * With larger bodies tilt at edge of body will induce more absolute dislocation in height and focus, but that shall be overdone in optical effect by the angular movement of field of view anyway.
    The problem is that the rule of thumb is very unsound logic.

    The way Ralph interprets it you should be able to hand hold a 55mm lens on a MF camera and get much sharper results than with a 55mm lens on a 35mm camera at the same speed but apart from the format factor that just isn't the case. Taking that logic further using a 17mm lens on a 35mm camera it should be very much easier to use hand held at slow speeds but in fact the opposite is true.

    Too many other factors other than focal length are also important to image sharpness, wider angle lenses often mean detail is very much finer which is quickly lost with any camera shake. Then there's distance from the lens/camera, we've all taken or seen images made from cars. trains etc where objects nearer to the camera are quite blurred through movement while distant objects appear sharper. In more normal use that means that the closer the subject is to the camera the greater effect of any camera shake, which of course is at it's most critical with macro work.

    So there's a point where "the rule of thumb" breaks down and other factors become more important. However with a standard focal length lens and longer as the angle of view narrows the "rule of thumb" becomes a rough and ready reminder that camera shake becomes more critical requiring higher shutter speeds with telephoto lenses


    Ian

  3. #23
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    ... The way Ralph interprets it you should be able to hand hold a 55mm lens on a MF camera and get much sharper results than with a 55mm lens on a 35mm camera at the same speed but apart from the format factor that just isn't the case. ...
    That is exactly what happens. You cannot arbitrarily ignore the format factor. You need to consider the entire image making process, including CoC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    ... Taking that logic further using a 17mm lens on a 35mm camera it should be very much easier to use hand held at slow speeds but in fact the opposite is true. ...
    No, no, that's true too. That's what the 1/focal length rule is all about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    ... So there's a point where "the rule of thumb" breaks down and other factors become more important. However with a standard focal length lens and longer as the angle of view narrows the "rule of thumb" becomes a rough and ready reminder that camera shake becomes more critical requiring higher shutter speeds with telephoto lenses.
    That may be; the rule-of-thumb is just that, a rule-of-thumb. But the point was, camera format matters. The rule as stated works best for MF. For 35mm it's too liberal and for LF it is a bit conservative. Every 4x5 shooter will tell you that shutter speeds slower than 1/125 s are quite possible.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #24

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    Bigger camera = bigger mass = more latitude.

    It is easier, up to a point, holding a heavy camera still than a flimsy plastic thingie.

    I have no big problem holding my 120 TLR's still at 1/(focuslengthx2), most of the time.

    The annoying bit is that every time it fails, it is *important* pictures!

  5. #25
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Prestmo View Post
    ... The annoying bit is that every time it fails, it is *important* pictures!
    That's what they all say: The ones I missed were the best ones!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  6. #26

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    And a lot depends on the person holding the camera. Some people have very shaky hands. Some people don't.

  7. #27

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    If it's important, then burn a couple of rolls (while taking careful notes) to find out what works for your camera and your hand-holding technique. You might want to know three different shutter speeds: "almost always sharp", "50-50 chance", and "only if I'm very, very lucky." With this information you'll have a good idea of if it's worth it to press the shutter in various situations.

  8. #28
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    The last time this topic was in a thread I contributed to it a lot.

    This time ...
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  9. #29
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    The last time this topic was in a thread I contributed to it a lot.

    This time ...
    You're sharing some of this?
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  10. #30
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    You're sharing some of this?
    Yes, I am avoiding some of the outlandish comment made by some. This subject was well covered last time with only a few new ideas.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

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