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  1. #11
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Sarile View Post
    The Nikon F, F2 , F3 and Minolta XK/XM shutters are all titanium.
    Oops, forgot the Minolta! It had a 1/100th X sync, IIRC.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #12
    IloveTLRs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltereegho View Post
    I heard from a repair guy that cloth shutters tend to stop working at very low temperatures. He told me that an Everest expedition had packed only the best of the best, but their awfully expensive Leicas didn't work at the top so they only shot pictures with an old russian camera someone brought along. Don't know if this is true, but if it is, it would certainly be worth considering if you live somewhere it can get really cold.
    I would have to respectfully disagree with this. If I remember correctly, Nikon RFs (the M and S?) claim to fame was their ability to work in the freezing cold winters of the Korean War (along with their high-quality lenses.) I believe a few war photographers discovered this when (their) Leicas stopped functioning in the cold.

    Perhaps it was a function of camera lubrication. Leica used organic lubricants for a long time, did Nikon use synthetics in the 1940s/early 50s?
    Those who know, shoot film

  3. #13
    lxdude's Avatar
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    I remember an ad in the 70's by Fuji which said a Japanese Everest expedition used the Fujica ST801, the cloth shutter of which runs on oil-impregnated sintered bronze bushings, the point they were making being that the bushings allowed it to function normally, without being "winterized". Winterizing was the removal of normal lubricants and replacement with lighter lubes, or running mechanisms "dry". Dissimilar metal combinations, like brass/steel, could be used unlubricated and work well, though generally with shorter service life if used extensively that way. Winterized equipment was sometimes reserved for use only in cold conditions, or just de-winterized for normal conditions.
    So I think it has nothing to do with cloth per se, just the way it's made, which would include type of lube.
    Last edited by lxdude; 02-20-2011 at 10:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  4. #14

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    Consider this test performed on a cloth shutter camera . . . Camera Magazine Pro test Olympus OM4Ti-Black

    Besides the Leica R6 and OM4T, I wonder what others they tested?

  5. #15
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    Thanks for that. What a brutal test! Although I didn't care for the "poor man's Nikon" bit. Never heard that, and I would (and did) take the Oly over any Nikon I've ever owned. No knock on Nikons though.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltereegho View Post
    I heard from a repair guy that cloth shutters tend to stop working at very low temperatures.......
    This repair guy really doesn't know what he's talking about.

    The chap in the article below spent 60 days last year exploring the Arctic with a Leica MP. Temperatures were as low as minus 30 to minus 40 Celsius. The cloth shutter functioned perfectly.

    http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...arctic_photos/

    Jim B.

  7. #17

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    It seems that most modern cameras - film and digital, have since reverted back to cloth curtains albeit with modern material such as carbon fiber and kevlar. However with this switch, they now list a warning when operating mirror lockup stating not to expose the curtains too long to the sun as it can damage them. It seems that these cameras with very fast shutter speeds require none metal curtains to achieve these speeds. For instance the Canon EOS pro cameras (1, 3 & 1V) as well as Nikon F6 all list this warning.

  8. #18

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    I saw brand new Nikon F2 titanium shutter curtains pull right off the drum (worked at Nikon in GC mid 70s). Copal shutters (metal, plastic blades), with broken rivets, so blades fall out. Cloth shutters pull off the drum or are pulled out bu customers because they "block the film". John

  9. #19
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltereegho View Post
    I heard from a repair guy that cloth shutters tend to stop working at very low temperatures. He told me that an Everest expedition had packed only the best of the best, but their awfully expensive Leicas didn't work at the top so they only shot pictures with an old russian camera someone brought along. Don't know if this is true, but if it is, it would certainly be worth considering if you live somewhere it can get really cold.
    In northern Greenland I used nearly new Leica M4 and Nikon F cameras at about -60F or -50C with factory lubrication and no problems except occasional static marks on film and very brittle film.

  10. #20
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    It is said that the most famous photo from Mt Everest, of Tenzig Norgay, was photographed by Sir Edmund Hillary with a Kodak Retina. The Retina used an iris (leaf) shutter.

    Kiev RF cameras (the Soviet Contax) always claim in their manuals that they can work in temperatures far beyond the freezing point. These had metal slat focal plane shutters. The Leica derived ones with cloth shutters don't seem to claim the same abilities.

    Cloth shutters are indeed easy to fix. Mechanically, the procedure is simple. And in case the material needs to be replaced, finding light proof cloth stock is easier than finding suitable metal leaves.
    FED ZORKI SURVIVAL SITE
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    "不管黑猫白猫能抓到老鼠就是好猫。" 邓小平
    It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.-邓小平

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