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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Have you worked the 90mm TS-E as a macro lens, elevating and increasing depth of field? Or, used the TS-E 24 for portraiture or still life? And what are you printing to to blithely assume that 35mm is not suitable for landscapes? You sound a lot like the way Ken Rockwell rattles on comparing this and that and one thing over the other with no technical balance to reinforce it. Please, some of us have been in 35mm professional practice for decades.
    I think you misread what I was trying to say, so i'll spell it out a little bit more..

    I have used the 90mm, great lens, but we're talking about the 24mm.

    I have in fact used a 24 T/S, it was the new Nikon one. I rented it for a weekend just for kicks and to compare to my 24 f/1.4G. Great lens, but I prefer the rendering of the 24 f/1.4 because I shoot people and I want isolation. 24mm and f/3.5 doesn't really give you that unless you're on top of someone.

    I never blithely said that 35mm was unsuitable for landscapes. I said 35mm is a PITHY format. Pithy means brief, terse, concise. Essentially It covers alot in very little. That is NOT a bad thing, and I never stated that it was.

    Congrats that you are/were in 35mm professional practice for a long time. I work professionally analog too, whoop-dee-do.

    About technical balance, if you're going to spend the time to use t/s movements, at least use the format designed for it. I just said that the 24/TS in some ways may be a lesser tool to large format for landscape/architectural. You get more movement on (lets just say) a 4x5, and your negative is over 15x larger. If you're going to spend the time to use a t/s, why rob yourself of detail and tonality with 35mm? 35mm is designed for speed and portability, everyone knows this. So my question is why weigh it down with movements trying to emulate what you get with a 4x5?

    It's all a difference in personal perspective, dude.

  2. #12
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I have used the 90mm, great lens, but we're talking about the 24mm.
    And we are talking about the specifics of a 35mm lens, not 4x5 and its perceived /actual merits over whatever else!
    Nowhere in the OP was their any open gate for you to barge in with unserviceable comparisons about 4x5 vs 35mm.

    Addressing another point in the OP:
    Canon is different! Yes, Canon's mirror lockup (along with a few other functions) is a cause celebré, but at least it works and works well on the workhorse 1N, and variants. F12-1-0 is all that you need to remember to activate it or not, but I agree, a lever would be better, but ever since it first came out, the 1N et al was going to be a different kettle of beans. Generally MUP is only really useful for very long tele lenses or precise macro (on that point, macro is something later EOS pro-level bodies achieve with greater panaché).

    Be it noted that very interesting (and challenging!) results can be achieved by aligning both T and S on the same plane. Inge Johnsson, TX, a researcher who made several ground breaking investigations into the TS-E, explored this in detail around 1997 (along with visual-vs-mathematical application of tilt).

    You might want to experiment with the Mk I TS-E 24 alongside the Mk II TS-E 24. There are some big differences, including weight, ease of handling, precision of focus and operability of T-S movements (rather oddball on the Mk II lens, but by the same token, in need of some design improvement on the Mk I optic!). I think using both side by side would be more valuable than assumptions.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  3. #13
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    T/S lenses are for when you want tilt and shift with a small format camera. It seems pretty self explanatory to me. And that sounds like what the OP wants. Stating that 4x5 offers more movement and a larger frame is like stating that a witch's tit in a brass bra face down in the snow is cold. Everybody knows that. It is a given. No need to argue for it or against it. On to the OP's question instead...
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #14
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    T/S lenses are for when you want tilt and shift with a small format camera. It seems pretty self explanatory to me. Stating that 4x5 offers more movement and a larger frame is like stating that a witch's tit in a brass bra face down in the snow is cold. So, so can we abandon this silly and distracting cat fight before it gets any farther off the ground?

    LOL!
    You're invited to dinner!
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  5. #15
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Ha, I changed my post to be less bitchy since you quoted me.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #16
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I can see that.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by F/1.4 View Post
    I think the TS-E 24 being the best 24mm is pretty subjective.

    I think the Nikon or Canon 24mm f/1.4's are better, they bring in over 4 times the light the T/S's do, can isolate subjects much better, and have AF. I need that for the weddings I'm able to shoot analog on and my fastest film is 400 (at 200). At 24mm, I'd MUCH rather have f/1.4 than T/S, regardless of distortion.

    Different strokes, different folks. Also if you can afford (which I assume you can considering how expensive the 24 is), instead of getting the 24TS, get a 4x5 view camera with a 90mm. I can't think of many uses for a 24TS outside of landscape/architecture, and Large Format is much more suitable for landscapes/architecture than the pithy 35mm format.

    Now if you're shooting with a 5DII, well that's a different story..
    Obviously these things are subjective. And no kidding it will never match the print quality I get with my 4x5 and 75mm, but often I need to use 35mm. I'm always on a tripod doing architecture/landscape, regardless of format, and I'm not isolating subjects with selective focus. So fast, AF lenses are a waste of money for me. I'd MUCH rather have a slower 24 that doesn't distort. Different strokes, as you say.

  8. #18

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    [QUOTE=2F/2F;1239483]It is not a minor annoyance. It is a major design SNAFU that people have been complaining about for two decades now. Idiots! It is a little bit better on the digitals. At least you don't have to memorize custom function numbers and settings. QUOTE]

    Ok I admit it is a major annoyance. I just didn't want to upset any of the staunch Canon lovers out there. For me, mirror lockup is a very important feature, and in my opinion should be easy as pie to activate on any camera that is claimed to be a professional body. But I'll live with it.

    In any case, my point here was certainly never to imply that using tilt/shift lenses on 35mm cameras is some kind of substitute for large format. There is no substitute for bigger film, plain and simple. But adding functionality to 35mm cameras for my type of work is helpful.

  9. #19
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I'm not going to say it's a major annoyance: Canon is different, and there were indications of what was coming in terms of oddball controls as early as the T90. But the modus operandi is very fiddly (as with all custom functions). People with big fingers find it impossible to reach inside the trapdoor on the side in a hurry. Like cameras, people are different. I don't have chunky paws so I can easily get in there to change things, but wearing gloves in winter is another thing: I use the tip of a pen to do it! My brother-in-law has such big hands he cannot even grasp the camera! Especially annoying to me and a noteworthy faux pas (covered in depth in the Canon EOS-1-series mir.com.my site that I contributed to) is there is no visual advisory on the displays that MUP is engaged, and legions of photographers pressed this matter on Canon for years. Woe betide you if you get the itch for a spontaneous from-the-hip shot and discover that faithful Brutus is in MUP and the choice moment has long gone.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  10. #20
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I purchased this lens second hand from another APUGger, and I'll say it's everything it's cracked up to be. As a large format shooter, it wasn't difficult for me to learn how to use it, and I really see these lenses as very specialized optics for photographers who basically shoot with a large-format mentality, but for certain specific reasons need to use small format or an SLR in some particular situation.

    Aside from uses that are off topic for APUG, the attraction of such a lens is for use where large format isn't an option, like where you might not be permitted to use a tripod, but you'll get a better shot with rise/fall or shift. Tilt and swing are not particularly useful without a tripod, but rise/fall and shift open up some real possibilities even for handheld photography. Diptychs using shift on a tripod are also another nice possibility with a lens like this.

    And even when I don't need the movements, it's great to have such a fantastically sharp 24mm lens for 35mm.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
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    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

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