Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,930   Posts: 1,556,849   Online: 955
      
Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 117
  1. #101

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by ostgardlaw View Post
    I was thinking about a piece I saw in some photography magazine years ago in which the same negative, a landscape I think, was given to several veteran printers and each then explained how he would interpret the image in a final print. The four results were quite distinct. While I agree few of us would be willing to turn over our negatives the way the writer turns over a script, still I wonder what another printer, backed up with more experience and skill than I have, or just a different artistic sensibility, might produce with one of my negatives which may be a better interpretation than the one I had in mind. And of course there is never just one way to interpret a negative. Lillian Bassman, the great fashion photographer, has radically re-interpreted a lot of negatives she made in the prime of her career (I think she is still alive). And ultimately we have no choice but to give up control of our negatives so someone else might find them and make art with them. I'm thinking of Vivian Maier, and the negatives of Capa, Taro, and Chim hidden for so many years in the Mexican Suitcase.
    All very true. I've only had two people print my "important images". One did exactly what I asked. His prints were OK. Sometimes only good enough. But it was my limited vision since he only did what I asked. The second guy (RIP) did what I asked and always suggested alternatives. Those prints were always better after collaborating with him. A third printer may be just as good but different... who knows.

    Speaking of Bassman... a long time ago I saw an exhibit of St. Ansel's images and that was the point of the exhibit: how he reinterpreted over the years. FASCINATING! I imagine a lot of the reinterpretation had someting to do with who was printing for him at the time, but that wasn't specifically addressed.

  2. #102

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia area
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    314
    Images
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Henri Cartier-Bresson

    He disliked developing or making his own prints. He said: "I've never been interested in the process of photography, never, never. Right from the beginning. For me, photography with a small camera like the Leica is an instant drawing." -Wikipedia.
    If he were the only photographer to feel it... Duane Michals has also the same feeling. Does it make him a non-photographer? No unless you have a very restrictive definition of photography (in this case, I would consider Duane Michals as a uber-photographer).
    Last edited by Dali; 01-09-2012 at 09:08 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #103

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    121
    This very interesting question sent me back to the books yesterday. I just told someone, yesterday also, that basically I've been heavily influenced by HCB and W Eugene Smith. Looking through books, I realized my work is a little like HCB printed by WES. :-) I found the HCB prints very disappointing; mundane, even. Smith, extreme in the other direction. Somewhere in the middle strike me as a good spot to be.

  4. #104
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,676
    Images
    14
    I have been watching this thread for awhile and since my sole income for the last 20 years and currently is making fibre prints for others, and before that working in labs I will add my thoughts to Matts post.

    Printing for others can make you better or it can make you worse

    Absolute first rule to be a competent printer for others- You must love photography.

    1. You also should understand the history of photography, and the different styles
    2. You must have a basic grasp on sensitommetry, chemistry , and also have mentors like Ian G , Ralph L who will guide you through the complexities of your weaknesses.
    3. Very important is to have a excellent understanding of lighting ratios and understand how the film exposure development mix is done.
    4. In my personal lab , we do not *** some exceptions*** print negatives that other labs have processed.

    Absolute second rule to be a competent printer for others- put your tastes to the side and find out how your client wants the print to look like.(this is easy if you apply 1. which is looking at historical prints.
    Be a CHAMELION and bend to the wishes of the client, its their work and trying to impose your wishes on them is pointless.

    Fire your client if you do not get along or cannot come to a print that you both can live with. Life is too short.

    5. In my case work every day at imaging, it is the practice you need to be sharp. If you want to print for others this is important if your family wants to eat.
    6. Read as many work books on phototography, printing... people make fun of Fred Picker but he had a lot of gems in his notes.
    7. When you print a show for another, make sure you attend the opening.. If you have done a crap job you deserve to be there and take the heat. reverse is true, when you do a good job you deserve credit as well as the photographer.
    8. Always start a job with a easy image, make sure both you and the photographer like the style, contrast, density, dodge & burn plan, and tone. Then follow with like images and do not jump around. Photographers usually are more concerned with the image and will jump from lighting ratio, to lighting ratio, I try to force them to do like minded negatives in groups, makes the day go better.
    Remember it is your darkroom and they are coming to you , so make sure you stand up for your beliefs .
    9. You must be consistent with your work and methods and make sure you deliver the goods.

    If you follow most of the above , then yes you will obviously get better as each style has its different idiosyncrasies but there is a basic common process that you can use as a base to work from.

    Communication only works if you are actually communicating with the other person. see comment about abandoning client.
    I do not like to print for clients who do not pick up their work in person, just did a job for a photographer in Ottawa, made the prints sent them off , no reply, It cannot get any worse, I do not know if he liked them or not.
    Seeing the face as you show the prints is very important, best to get the photographer seeing a test print very early , rather than printing a show as you may be way off base.

    Absolute third rule to be a competent printer for others- work on a body of your own negatives, so that you can make prints the absolute way you want.

    I have known many professional printers who cannot make a consistantley decent print and there are many , many on this site much better than some of the pros.
    Also on a financial note, I have a standard day rate and I make the photographer pay for paper and chemicals on top of this rate. Therefore there is no issue of getting to the right print , we make good use of the round filing system here and it can mean a lot of paper.

    Last note , I generally consider current day photographers as Kevin Costiner(Bull Durham} thought of his pitcher when he addressed him.


    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    As many have posted, it depends on the photographer (and the printer).

    I have done a fair amount of printing for others, although I certainly wouldn't describe myself as a master printer.

    IMHO, there is nothing that will improve your printing as much as printing for others.

    Photography is about many things, but communication is one of the most important.

    Photographers who can communicate that can, with the help of a talented and perceptive printer, create better photographs.

    And printers who assist photographers with vision in turning that vision into great prints, can be invaluable as well.

    In my case, I really enjoy the darkroom. I truly believe that in my case, my experience printing aids my photographic vision, because it always helps me to have in mind the print's capacities when I'm creating the negative.

    It is much the same with transparency work - I find that if I don't have the projected transparency in mind when I take the shot, most likely it will come out mediocre.

    But that is me. If I didn't get the joy I get from printing, but had someone good working with me instead, I expect that I would be happy too.

  5. #105

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    4. In my personal lab , we do not *** some exceptions*** print negatives that other labs have processed.
    Bob... will you please expand on this point. Why not? Doesn't that artificially limit your business? What is the business or technical rationale -- isn't a printable neg a printable neg no matter who developed it? I'm interested in hearing more because I've never personally run into any lab with this limitation.

  6. #106

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Fire your client if you do not get along or cannot come to a print that you both can live with. Life is too short.
    Oh, BTW, this applies to many other areas of life not just photography. It is so true that I think it should be added to the Bill of Rights and maybe even the Ten Commandments! It seems like no matter how hard we try to please customers it is sometimes impossible and the effort far outweighs the benefits (for either party).

  7. #107
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,676
    Images
    14
    We have always artificially limit our business with some of our workflow methods.

    We run one shot chemicals in a Jobo for over 15 years, our film is very clean and predictable . In our city there are/where many labs who ran shoddy processes, major culprits roller transport and dip and dunk with lousy replenish lines. This meant scratched film which under glass mount and condenser enlarger major retouch issues, as well a poorly replenished line will give very weak shadow detail which translates IMO to poor prints.
    I just got tired of explaining that the film was the culprit.

    We pride ourselves in working with long term clients who only have had us as their partner in processing and printing. This equates to a very lovely working relationship.
    I have never actively went after any photographer to do their work, and have refused to work with many on different principles.
    We never went the Star f...kj route with our business, trying to use a big name as a reason for others to come to us, most of my clients have gravitated to us by word of mouth and over the years and some have started to make names for themselves.


    I am not saying individual photographers who process their own fill do a poor job, actually the best film is done by hand, but in my line of work we do get a lot of film from D&D and Roller Transport film from labs , and I just don't like working with it.
    In my post an important issue was our dislike of working on prints and not seeing the artists face .. this is very important.

    Labs historically in the 90's that were running roller transport were proofing out on Fuji or Noritsu machines. Digital Ice was applied which hid most of the flaws at up to 8x10 size, when I got the film and made enlarged prints I can remember some pretty good arguments that did not go well for the photographer or us and usually ended any sort of relationship.



    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Bob... will you please expand on this point. Why not? Doesn't that artificially limit your business? What is the business or technical rationale -- isn't a printable neg a printable neg no matter who developed it? I'm interested in hearing more because I've never personally run into any lab with this limitation.

  8. #108

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    We pride ourselves in working with long term clients who only have had us as their partner in processing and printing. This equates to a very lovely working relationship.

    In my post an important issue was our dislike of working on prints and not seeing the artists face .. this is very important.


    ... I can remember some pretty good arguments that did not go well for the photographer or us and usually ended any sort of relationship.
    I didn't miss these points... the relationship is key! Unfortunately for many of us the face-to-face is limited by many factors, and I agree that that limits both the relationship and the quality. My best working relationship was in that face-to-face environment. Many emotions, feelings, and critiques are hard to verbalize, but they get expressed sufficiently in facial expressions, uttered groans/grunts, and body language.

  9. #109
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,676
    Images
    14
    Exactly as long as they are not farts.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    I didn't miss these points... the relationship is key! Unfortunately for many of us the face-to-face is limited by many factors, and I agree that that limits both the relationship and the quality. My best working relationship was in that face-to-face environment. Many emotions, feelings, and critiques are hard to verbalize, but they get expressed sufficiently in facial expressions, uttered groans/grunts, and body language.

  10. #110

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,861
    I have to admit, Bob, I admire the fact you can find some personal satisfaction in printing for others, rather than it being a total drag strictly to put food on the table. I would never want to print other peoples' pictures, even periodically. It would just be drudgery to me.

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin