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  1. #71
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    I liked the hunter/cook analogy. I thought about the comparison of photography and food last week.

    For what kind of chef would you go out of your way to experience their food? If I was a chef instead of photographer, would anyone bother to come back?

    I am sure HCB was a hunter. John Morris talking about the photographer's eye said "It's a pleasure to look at the contact sheets of Cartier-Bresson, especially so because he doesn't like to lend them out! But, they show his search, his probing of subject matter. It's fascinating to see the way he works."

  2. #72
    ParkerSmithPhoto's Avatar
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    Preesh.

    And let's not forget art history: all of the great painters, Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Caravaggio, etc. had ateliers where apprentices would undertake all sorts of "boring" and laborious tasks such as the underpainting. Fast forward to Warhol and Koons, etc. who have their assistants do much of the mechanical work of putting the art together. How would bronzes ever get made? Can one man alone cast 500 pounds of molten metal?

    It's the idea that matters. Right now, all of my paying portrait work is done with Canon digital and output either on lightjet or inkjet printers. Once it leaves Photoshop, it is an almost entirely mechanical process. Alec Soth, for instance, now scans his negatives and outputs on HP inkjet. Is it not art?

    Again, it's the idea that matters. The final art object -- whether a silver gelatin print, a painting, or a silk screened wooden box -- is merely the physical manifestation of the idea, and is, of course, part of the original idea itself.
    Parker Smith Photography, Inc.
    Atlanta, GA

    Commercial & Fine Art Photography
    Portrait Photography

  3. #73
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Somewhere I read that HCB's "decisive moment" concept was meant to apply to the viewing of the photograph and not just its moment of capture. My understanding is he saw himself more as a photojournalist of culture and the zeitgeist apart from the fussiness of the fine art world. If he was a hunter he used a shotgun.

  4. #74
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    If he was a hunter he used a shotgun.
    I don't know, he was a very stealthy guy... I think he was more of a sniper than a shotgun shooter
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  5. #75
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    One of the things that draws me to what I think of as classic photography is being able to take responsibility for the entire creative process, from visualizing a picture to final presentation. I derive a great deal of satisfaction from composing an image, exposing and developing a good negative, crafting a good print that expresses what I felt when I first saw the picture in my mind, all the way to matting and framing the print. Some of it is art, some of it science, some of it simply math, but if it works I get all the credit and if it fails I will gladly accept the blame.

    But that's just me.


    web site: Dan Henderson, Photographer.com

    blog: https://danhendersonphotographer.wordpress.com/

    I am not anti-digital. I am pro-film.

  6. #76
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    When a post discusses HCB, lets just remind ourselves in visual terms what we are talking about -

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Guss25YP-U...-Bresson00.jpg

    Can any memember of APUG produce a picture like this?
    I saw this and immediately thought of some of Nicole's work.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #77
    MattKing's Avatar
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    As many have posted, it depends on the photographer (and the printer).

    I have done a fair amount of printing for others, although I certainly wouldn't describe myself as a master printer.

    IMHO, there is nothing that will improve your printing as much as printing for others.

    Photography is about many things, but communication is one of the most important.

    Photographers who can communicate that can, with the help of a talented and perceptive printer, create better photographs.

    And printers who assist photographers with vision in turning that vision into great prints, can be invaluable as well.

    In my case, I really enjoy the darkroom. I truly believe that in my case, my experience printing aids my photographic vision, because it always helps me to have in mind the print's capacities when I'm creating the negative.

    It is much the same with transparency work - I find that if I don't have the projected transparency in mind when I take the shot, most likely it will come out mediocre.

    But that is me. If I didn't get the joy I get from printing, but had someone good working with me instead, I expect that I would be happy too.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #78
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    Matt: I am interested in why you think that "nothing will improve your printing as much as printing for others." I am not taking issue with your statement in any way, but I have never printed for anyone else and I would like to know how you think it has improved your printing.
    Thanks,
    Dan


    web site: Dan Henderson, Photographer.com

    blog: https://danhendersonphotographer.wordpress.com/

    I am not anti-digital. I am pro-film.

  9. #79
    ostgardlaw's Avatar
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    In thinking about master printers, I've sometimes thought of the negative as analogous to a script produced by a playwright, who turns it over to directors and actors for their own interpretations of the work, usually without consulting the author. Even though I very much enjoy the entire process which results in a silver gelatin print, I would love to produce a negative worthy of a master printer's interpretation someday.

    But I have been curious about comments by fellow Apugger's in this and other threads about how they don't enjoy various aspects of the darkroom, or they feel the "process" is much less important than getting to the true goal, which is the image. I tried and rejected digital photography because I never felt engaged by the digital workflow (and I didn't care for color work or the look of digital black and white). But what keeps those of you who don't care for the darkroom (and all the frustrations with disappearing product lines) shooting film as opposed to going over to digital? What preserves your dedication to film?

  10. #80
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baachitraka View Post
    Mr. Keith,

    This is question by itself, Is it possible to create a master piece(not accidental) when you are not the part of the whole?
    Do you make your own film? Paper emulsion? Developers? Frames? Matting? Lenses?

    Each of these items have a distict roll in the look of the final product, most of us outsource many, if not most, of the tasks required to take a photo. This can be by choice or necessity.

    Even if we are shooting wet plates and making paper from pulp and emulsion from raw chemicals we would probably still outsource the making of the glass and the mining of the silver and ....

    Specialization doesn't mean quality falls, in fact allowing Ilford to make my film instead of me making it allows me to make higher quality photos with less work.

    The difference in outsourcing lab work vs outsourcing film manufacturing is just a line in the sand, its only a matter of degree.

    If we have to do the mining, logging, and refining to make our materials, we will have precious little time left over to take take pictures and make prints.

    I am quite happy to be able to concentrate my efforts in places i enjoy and have the people around me add to the quality of my work.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin



 

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