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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Photography as an art is not an exact science. Brassai would time his night exposures with how long it took him to smoke certain cigarettes. – A Gauloise for a certain light, a Boyard if it was darker. Forget the reciprocity charts an experiment.
    Brassai's night photos of Paris are amazing; well worth looking at for night photo inspiration. I was just thinking of his interiors shots of people (in bars, clubs) the other day and plan to look at them again soon. All pretty amazing for the time (or any time).

    His cigarette technique sounds very practical, though I hate to have to take up smoking just for that.

  2. #22
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    That was an era. During WW2 walking distances time were often estimated by the number of cigarettes...

  3. #23
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Hopefully this is readable.

    Vaughn
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Night_Exp.jpg  
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  4. #24
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Thanks Vaughn!

    There is nothing quite so amazing as to see how you answered ted_smith's specific question completely and thoroughly! I didn't think the answer would exceed speculation.

    I'd just become acquainted with Michael Kenna's work this year and so the question caught my attention. I never realized he taught.

    Thanks for sharing this, I was about to try to puzzle out a similar series of TMY2's reciprocity characteristics, this gives me a starting point (or maybe it is all I needed).

  5. #25
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    How come Michael Kenna's nighttime shots always look so bright?

    Yes thanks that's awesome!

    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by StoneNYC; 12-29-2012 at 01:14 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #26
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    How come Michael Kenna's nighttime shots always look so bright?

    Quote Originally Posted by ted_smith View Post
    OK, so I've been wowed and amazed by the work of Michael Kenna (http://www.michaelkenna.net/). Inspired by his nighttime shots, I've headed out a couple of times at night, several hours past sunrise so it's properly black as night.

    On one occasion, I walked along some of the flood plains of The River Derwent as it winds through a fairly rural part of Derbyshire. As it had not been snowing or anything (I note a lot of MK's shots are taken at night but in snow. but not all are), it was basically just very dark (and wet as we have had heavy rain here recently), despite the full moon. My light meter couldn't register even 1 EV (I using Ilford Pan 50+, ISO50). And after a while, I started to get the creeps and I also had it in the back of my mind "I am 2 miles from the road...if this river starts to swell due to heavy rain further north, I might get stranded!!".

    So I took a few shots anyway using guess work (10 seconds, 15 seconds, 20 seconds etc) but I have no idea how they'll come out, if they'll come out at all. And I then hurried back to the road.

    So I found myself thinking "With the exception of the snow scenes, how does MK get such well lit scenes when taken at night?"
    I don't think anything will come out at such a short time, Pan F+ is great, but, a 50 ASA is very slow, heck sometimes I need 30 seconds or more with a 400 ASA film. I would suggest pushing that to 3200 if you expect to get any image at all, it will be grainy and contrasted to hell, but it won't be blank


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #27
    ted_smith's Avatar
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    Vaughn...that rocks! Thanks a lot. That is what I was after pretty much, when I asked the question here. It certainly helps explain a lot of my mis-understandings!

    I do have a question about it. Where it says, for example, meter reading of 20 minutes = 4 hours....I don't get that. If the meter says 20 minutes for a "correct exposure", 4 hours is making it considerably "over exposed". Is that the point, though? Is that how his pictures look the way they do and so bright despite apparant darkness? In other words, a piece of technology might report 20 minutes as a suitable exposure time, but he's taking it to 4 hours? Or have I mis-understood that?

    As for the roll of 120 I shot at 10\15 secs in almot utter darkness...by the sounds of it, I think I may as well just throw that out rather than paying to have it dev'd!
    Ted Smith Photography
    Hasselblad 501CM...my 2nd love.

  8. #28
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    How come Michael Kenna's nighttime shots always look so bright?

    Quote Originally Posted by ted_smith View Post
    Vaughn...that rocks! Thanks a lot. That is what I was after pretty much, when I asked the question here. It certainly helps explain a lot of my mis-understandings!

    I do have a question about it. Where it says, for example, meter reading of 20 minutes = 4 hours....I don't get that. If the meter says 20 minutes for a "correct exposure", 4 hours is making it considerably "over exposed". Is that the point, though? Is that how his pictures look the way they do and so bright despite apparant darkness? In other words, a piece of technology might report 20 minutes as a suitable exposure time, but he's taking it to 4 hours? Or have I mis-understood that?

    As for the roll of 120 I shot at 10\15 secs in almot utter darkness...by the sounds of it, I think I may as well just throw that out rather than paying to have it dev'd!
    2 things, one is with this stuff it's better to learn to develop it yourself. Not have a lab do it, because there are finite details about WHICH developer works best with which film and the type of exposure you're doing you will want to have more control over the process in general. It's easy for $100 to get a full Paterson setup that can be put in a box when not in use and won't take up much space and you can do this at home.

    Second is, the reason for the 20 minutes = 4 hours is about reciprocity failure, so most films hit failure at 30 seconds, Fuji Neopan Acros 100 has a reported 2 minute failure threshold. So basically after 2 minutes (or 30 seconds for most other films) the normal exposure times stop being accurate and have to be extended exponentially. The film basically stops reacting to the light and needs to be exposed for a much longer time. This also means steadier tripod and camera that can be out on time function (bulb would be ok but you would be standing there holding the cable for an hour...). Does this make sense?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #29
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    i agree, iused bond's table with much success too!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  10. #30
    bobwysiwyg's Avatar
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    (bulb would be ok but you would be standing there holding the cable for an hour...)
    Many cables have locking capability.
    WYSIWYG - At least that's my goal.

    Portfolio-http://apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=25518

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