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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    And the reasoning behind your medical assertion regarding Ms. Maire is...

    (THX*)

    Ken

    * The audience is listening...
    Obviously not. I have typed enough in this thread on that topic that if you want to know the answer you can just read my posts. If that is not enough then you can ask me a specific question. Many of the responses to my posts on the topic of mental illness were false as I demonstrated with my last post.

    At this point this is like one of my encounters with hardcore DSLR users in public. They ask me about my camera and when I tell them it is a film camera they start going on and on about how digital is better. Thankfully this has only happened a couple of times but I don't waste my time explaining to them why I shoot film. Don't get me wrong I have turned a few people on to film but they were people that were receptive. I know people have zingers that they like to use on digital people but I don't. Why bother? It's not like you are going to convince them. I'm just polite and end the conversation as soon as possible and get back to shooting before I lose my light. So I have to end this conversation. I will not be returning to this thread. I do this as much for everyone else as I do it for myself. Thank you and good bye.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesantacruz View Post
    WELL this is worrying me... can someone point to a number of frames i can take - both 120mm and 35mm/per week - so as not to bring any attention to my 'possible' mental state.

    sometimes i shoot both during the same week, so if you can give me a way to compensate for both, i would be eternally grateful, not to mention relieved.
    Yeahh, I've been thinking that I might need some help in this area as well. Of course, after several thousand frames of my own, I have not noticed any tendency toward eye-catching, creative, photos. Since I doubt that anyone would be tempted to purchase my negatives, and then sell them on e-bay posthumously, I may still be safe.

    And in case someone makes the mistake of believing that I am poking fun at mental health, I am most definitely not. As Noble says, it is a serious issue that is often, tragically, ignored. However I have a sneaking suspicion that speculating on apug that someone may have had mental health problems based on their occupation coupled with the tendency to take, but not develop, a lot of pretty good pictures, is not going to change that.

  3. #93
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    If that is not enough then you can ask me a specific question.
    Fair enough.

    I just reread all of your posts into this thread. Here's my specific question that has thus far not been answered by you.* It's not designed to be a trap. It's not intended to obfuscate. I've worded it as straightforward as I possibly can, in as neutral a tone as possible. I'm fully prepared to hear an answer that I might not expect or agree with. And I am willingly subordinating myself to your level of expertise in these matters...

    Exactly how did you come to your determination that Ms. Maire, during the long period in which she was photographically active, was afflicted by mental illness? And can you tell me what form that mental illness took and how it affected her?

    I look forward to your answer...

    Ken

    * With the questionable exception of implying that since 1-in-4 people are subject to mental illness at some point in a given year, Ms. Maire must have therefore been one of those afflicted.
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 06-28-2013 at 10:59 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Additional clarity...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #94
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    So let me get this straight. The guy comes on here, speculates about Maier's mental health based on the number of pictures she took, gets disagreed with, and decides that we just don't get it, man. So he decides he won't discuss it with us poor benighted souls any further. But not before posting as some kind of proof of his assertion an article from nih.gov, which article is in itself a series of speculations and disagreements with prior speculations on Mozart's mental state, based only on his biography and letters. Mozart died 65 years before Freud was even born, and a bunch of gummint eggheads think they're so smart they can reach conclusions on the man's mental health. Psychoanalysis is as fraught with fads, disagreement and intellectual arrogance as any other soft science, i.e., those which do not have to submit to strict scientific method.
    I have learned through the years to be suspicious of anyone who thinks they can psychoanalyze another person by long-distance, especially when they have no training in it. Every one I have known had some issues of their own. Not sayin' that's the case here, just sayin'.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #95

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    Please don't feed the necropsychiatrist.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    Mental disorders are severly under diagnosed and even more seriously under treated.
    Which proves nothing about Maier.

    You guys might be great at taking, printing, and critiquing photographs but you are terrible at mental health awareness.
    Quite a claim. Looks like your mind's made up, and no amount of rational discourse will sway you. You are going to inform us of our failing to grasp and agree with your superior awareness, and that's that.
    What's the point of discussing Maier's mental state, anyway? You steered the conversation in that direction, so it's obviously your interest, but it's not relevant for most of us anyway. Maier's dead, and can't be helped if she did have a mental health issue. Speculating about her mental health served what purpose? She was functional, had a job, and pursued a passion for photography. There is no appearance that any issues she might have had kept her from being satisfied with her life. I and others pointed out that what she did was not highly unusual for a dedicated photographer, therefore it was not really abnormal.
    Maier was an unusual person, one who did what she wanted with her life, instead of conforming to the mold most others fit into. She was a prolific artist. For that she is adjudged to have mental issues? I'd rather be nutty like her than normal like the drones who go through their dull ordinary conformist lives.

    Ya know what else? It's not really "normal" to go around speculating on the mental state of other people you never even met.
    Last edited by lxdude; 06-28-2013 at 11:29 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typo
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    Please don't feed the necropsychiatrist.
    Yeah, you're right. Great word! I wish I'd thought of it.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  8. #98
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    I can't support a supposition that VM was mentally ill. The biggest factor to the contrary was she took care of children privately throughout her life. No parents would want a mentally ill person around their children. My impression of VM is that she was a mentally strong person due to her childhood. Quirky perhaps, intensely private, but she was dedicated, both to her employers and her photography. It seems apparent that she also had a strong will and a strong opinion. Calling her mentally ill seems odd to me, like a presupposition based on a personal experience. One thing about VM that I have noticed is that people tend to project themselves onto her. I see this time and time again. Maybe the answer Noble seeks lies in himself/herself. VM mentally ill? I just don't think there is any evidence.

  9. #99
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    ^^Well said! Excellent points.^^
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #100
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    Film users must be mentally ill. Living in the past. Fear of the future. Tsk. Tsk. Shame!

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