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  1. #21
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    I must live a sheltered life. I've never heard of any of these photographers!!!
    Robert, I was shocked when I read that. It is slightly unbelievable that you have never heard of William Eggleston. You know, the tricycle? A few of those names on that list are a little obscure, but most are the really important people in color photography---the people that shaped it.

    Can please explain your reason for automatically disliking anything other than oversaturated color photography---something that many people would call calender art?

  2. #22
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by game
    . . . By artistic point of view I mean, I don't care to much about postcard like mountains or clouds or sunsets if you know what I mean. I like it if some underlying tension is felt.

    Well, I hope I made my question clear and that some suggestions will follow.
    Rich, my point is that he clearly states what he is not interested in, and that is totally ignored in the very first post. You are right that Eliot Porter and Philip Hyde should be mentioned because there were some of the first to use color in the landscape, and what they did for conservation is truly important (the same is true for Gallen Rowell). But, most of their photographs lack the underlying tension that Sam is talking about. Most color landscape photography, past the initial "wow. that place is beautiful", is emotionally empty.

    Robert Adams was asked why he doesn't photograph in color. His reply was that it is "the same reason that he does not write in free verse. It is all too close to how it really is in life." I take that to mean that it doesn't tell us more than we already know and can see without the camera.

    It could even be said that post card pictures are a real problem with modern culture. Most people are too quick to replace the experience with an image. But can also be said that some people go and have an experience because of an image.

    Tim had it right with all of his suggestions.

  3. #23
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Boutwell
    Robert, I was shocked when I read that. It is slightly unbelievable that you have never heard of William Eggleston. You know, the tricycle? A few of those names on that list are a little obscure, but most are the really important people in color photography---the people that shaped it.

    Can please explain your reason for automatically disliking anything other than oversaturated color photography---something that many people would call calender art?
    What I like is nature, landscapes. I have no interest in urban landscapes, or people on the street.

    You can call my work, or the work of those I admire, oversaturated, if you like, but that is the way I see color (with our without a lens). And frankly, I don't care of you call it calendar art or not. I would have to disagree with you when you say these are the ones who shaped color photography - in my mind I think of people like David Muench, Eliot Porter, and some of the early color work by Ansel Adams.

    I hate Meyerowtiz's "Tuscany." I've seen the book, it is now selling in the reject bin at the bookstore, where it belongs. The pictures are horrid; his composition lacks any kind of life. He seems not to understand that that leading lines [font=Verdana]impart a sense of dynamism, depth and rhythm to an image, nor does he seem to understand how to use color in his work.[/font]

    [font=Verdana]You may not like my assessment of his work, but that is the way I see it.[/font]
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  4. #24
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    I've seen the book, it is now selling in the reject bin at the bookstore, where it belongs.
    His work is also in the collection at the Met, MOMA, Eastman House, Pompidou, etc., where it belongs.

    I didn't mean to turn this into a pissing contest. I know clearly what you interests are---you have stateted them time and again. My question was why.


    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    He seems not to understand that that leading lines impart a sense of dynamism, depth and rhythm to an image, nor does he seem to understand how to use color in his work.
    That sounds like rules you read somewhere in Popular Photography. I do not think there are rules that can be applied to picture making. There really is only how you respond to what you see through the camera and what you can translate into a finished photograph.

    I think he knows exceptionally well how to use color in making a picture. I say exceptionally because it is usually very, very sublte. You said that you see color in the world as being very saturated. That is the likely cause for you not seeing it in his photographs. It is like hearing loud pop music all your life and then hearing Thelonious Monk. You would say, "I hate it! He is playing wrong notes all over the place, and he has no sense of time!" I don't think I have to tell you what I feel is more satisfying.

    Robert, as you said, that is the way you see it. And although I don't agree, I don't think you will alter your view. I can say in the course of this brief debate I have enjoyed looking quickly through nearly one thousand of Meyerowitz's pictures, and very closely at several dozen. I am now visually exhuasted and satisfied. Something I can't say after looking at several hundered of David Muench's or Jack Dykinga's.
    Last edited by Richard Boutwell; 04-22-2006 at 03:09 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #25

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    Well, it's pretty clear that Richard Boutwell understands what I am talking about and roteague not. I too don't want to turn this into a argueing topic But if you can't relate to meyorowitz than there are no similarities in our view at photograpy. I love his work on toscany.
    Joel is not trying to do what all these calander dudes do. If you think he is, than you are missing the point on so many levels. If one reads the intro to the cape cod book, than one can find an interview with meyerowitz. He too is asked why he uses colour film, and his reply is so much deeper than what Robert Adams apperently answered. I don't say this to show joel is 'better'.
    Only to show it's something else.
    I can't keep thinking of all these postcard images but as the musak of photography. I DON'T LIKE IT. To me I can understand people that say WOW, but to me it's empty.
    So guys that are with me on this, I'd love to hear some of your suggestions
    And thanks richard for your effort to push this thread in the right direction.

    Best regards sam

  6. #26
    Helen B's Avatar
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    A lot of the people I would have mentioned have already been mentioned, mainly by Tim, so I'll just add John Ganis and suggest Blind Spot as a source for the type of colour landscape you are interested in.

    Best,
    Helen
    PS I guess that much of the stuff I have on the web might be classified as pretty postcards. And the rest... well, as someone said "If we wanted pictures like yours we could have got them from a seed catalogue".

  7. #27

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    thanks helen,
    Great link to a probably very nice magazine. Only shipment to europe will be 40 dollar, too much...
    Game

  8. #28
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by game
    I can't keep thinking of all these postcard images but as the musak of photography. I DON'T LIKE IT. To me I can understand people that say WOW, but to me it's empty.
    Perhaps you just don't understand it. It involves having a love of the nature world around us, not of the image itself. Meyorowitz's work is static, showing no life.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  9. #29
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by game
    I was hoping some of you guys can provide me with some suggestions of photographers that I could/should check out.
    My favorite book of color photography is the monumental River of Colour: The India of Raghubir Singh. Like the work of his artistic mentor, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Singh's work is so seminal that it defies categorization. It is page after page of vibrant compositions, perfectly executed. The color is never gratuitous but always is an integral part of each masterpiece of composition. Whether you most fancy landscape photography, photojournalism, street work or even abstract expressionist photography you're certain to see at least one photograph in this book which will take your breath away.

    Singh worked exclusively with a hand held 35mm camera and Kodachrome 25 film yet neither Ansel Adams nor Edward Weston ever surpassed his compositional eye with their tripod mounted 8 x 10s.

    I found my copy, a paper bound one, in a cutout bin at Border's priced, as I recall, at $8.00. This is undoubtedly the best book bargain I've ever run into. As the Bard of Baltimore said: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public". -- H.L. Mencken

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    Perhaps you just don't understand it. It involves having a love of the nature world around us, not of the image itself. Meyorowitz's work is static, showing no life.

    It is not the image itself? I don't see that written on photography sites very often. Could you expand on this philosophy? When I make a photograph, everything on the ground glass is it. The success or failure of the picture is determined by "the image itself." The image is what people will see, not the emotion I carry with me behind the camera. The image (on the ground glass and on the print) is everything! You've mentioned Ken Duncan and I do recall flipping through one of his books once and reading about how his pictures are a testament to "creation," but that does nothing to increase the merit of his pictures. The phrase "calendar art" has been brought up several times on this thread, and I would note that one sometimes sees descriptions of pictures, the stories behind them, the struggle to get to the location before dawn, etc., in calendar presentations.

    Meyerowitz's work is static and shows no life? I'd invite you to look again.

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