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  1. #1
    perfect's Avatar
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    " Whats happening to our industry "

    i dont know if this is the right place for this post , but iam sure some one will point it out if not !

    I recieved a telephone call earlier today from a lady who wanted her daughter photographing at home this friday night before she went to the prom . She originally asked for a framed & mounted portrait . After i told her that she would be better off , having me to do a shoot under studio lighting & to give her the selection of images 6x4 in size , taken at the shoot & complimented with 6mb files of each shot on pro disk , for £ 150.00 , as a framed a mounted image with me for a one off is £ 210.00 . i added she could then choose from the original images the shot she wanted enlarging & framed , for a considerable reduction at a later date ! The lady replied that she would come back to me when she had spoken to her partner .

    To her word a couple of hours later she returned the call . She began by saying can i come to your studio as it would be cheaper ! I said that wether you come to the studio or i come to you the price would be the same ! She then said a digital photographer had quoted her £ 50.00 for a one of 12x8 portrait not framed at is studio ! My reply to this was , you must look at what your getting for your money , i said you are getting one hell of a package with me , that is strictly professional , & at a relatively low cost .

    Any way my point here is that , the lady choosed the digi photographer , over my professional service , & to me a far better quality of work , than his .

    It is hard maiking a living in photography , but its getting harder with these point & shoot digital amateurs !

    Whats members thoughts ?

    simon

  2. #2
    roteague's Avatar
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    Just don't try to compete on cost, you will lose in the end. Compete on quality; just realize that top-notch quality isn't important to some people.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  3. #3
    perfect's Avatar
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    i here what you say & these are my thoughts exactly , but quality seems to be loosing 9 times out of 10 , at this rate film photographers are going to be none exsistant ?

    If i have to pick up a digi cam , thats it for me , i would sooner go back to 9-5 for a company ?

    simon

  4. #4
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    A customer wants what they ask for....they see the price .... and they do see the finished product...to this customer the price and the finished product offered by your competitor tipped the hand...

    Take a light weight portable light and a reflector, shoot in home as requested, and give an unmounted 12 x 8 for 75 lbs, with the offer to review other images you have scanned from your negs with a reduced price for the additiional images.....a sharp 12 x 8 photo made in the states at the drug store (in 30 minutes) from scanned negs are $1.99....your mark up is substantial enough...you could even offer 2 for the 75....

  5. #5
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Quality schmality.

    People shop at Wall Mart, people buy fake Guccis and Louis Vuittons, people pirate software, people steal music, people eat at fast food joints, etc... People today don't care or want or pay for quality. They're sick of quality.

    Quality is for the elite. The people want cheap.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  6. #6
    perfect's Avatar
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    Hi Dave

    again i here whats being said here , & i suppose it is a valid point , & boils down to what we are prepared as individuals to earn ?

    i started this business 8 years ago with £50 pounds in my pocket when i rented my first studio & have stuggled to make a honest living since then , having to compete with digi methods & imagers !

    i have a family to keep & put food on the table for & 2 studios & other related costs to pay for . I offered this lady bottom dollar uk rates for a good package at home , with studio lighting ! By the time i take my petrol costs , a roll of film & processing costs , with my time allocated the profit margin is relatively low to say the least ?

    Here in the uk to process a roll of pro 35 film at 12x8 prints is on average £ 24 + vat , working photographers here in the uk start at around £120 per hour , my rates are £150 per hour including all materials ?

    yep i could do this commission for £75 like you suggest , but iam affraid poor quality digital imaging will be the finish of film photographers , as the majority of the public seem to be choosing cheap & nasty services over quality here in the uk anyway ?

    simon

  7. #7
    Aggie's Avatar
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    For my daughters wedding, we had to use the inhouse photographer. He showed us his work, and tried to sell us one of his package deals. I asked what equipment he used. He was so proud to say he had now gone totally digital. When I asked if he still had his film equipment, he paused and said yes, but he didn't want to use it. I said if he wanted to do this wedding, he was going to shoot film. To which he told me it was all going to be digitally printed (this in 2001) I told him again only film, and printed the regular way with a wet darkroom. He got very mad at me, and said that if I wanted his services he would do it his way and with digital. After that confrontation I went to the head of the department that did the weddings (this at the Cal Neva Lodge at Lake Tahoe) and complained that we were being ripped off with inferior services by a substandard photographer. Once I got finished I was allowed to have our own photographer brought in and do the wedding. Well since the wedding was supposed to happen on 9-15-2001 short ending, it didn't happen as planned. I shot the wedding held in our bishops office once we were able to get the grooms parents into the San Francisco area from South America.
    Non Digital Diva

  8. #8
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart
    Quality schmality.

    People shop at Wall Mart, people buy fake Guccis and Louis Vuittons, people pirate software, people steal music, people eat at fast food joints, etc... People today don't care or want or pay for quality. They're sick of quality.

    Quality is for the elite. The people want cheap.

    Regards, Art.
    Sorry Art, but Gucci and Louis Vitton is still in business and doing quite well. Come to Honolulu and I can show you places where these stores are, stores where you have to knock on the door to be let in. Yes, the majority of the world shops on price, but those who can afford quality still prefer it - and those are the people I try to sell to.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  9. #9
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfect
    yep i could do this commission for £75 like you suggest , but iam affraid poor quality digital imaging will be the finish of film photographers , as the majority of the public seem to be choosing cheap & nasty services over quality here in the uk anyway ?

    simon
    Something similar is happening here; digital portrait photography studios are popping up in malls, etc. But, a funny thing, those still shooting traditionally haven't totally disappeared, yes they went though hard times, but as soon as they realized they couldn't compete on price with the digital photographer, they started playing up the strengths of film and working it to their advantage. The end result, they are charging higher prices.

    The person on APUG who could give you some ideas would be blansky. He does portraiture traditionally, and knows his stuff.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  10. #10
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    Simon,

    My point was not for you to make less money....it was thro marketing approach for you to get the gig....you could make more...the sales comes into play...the lady will certainly purchase more that one print....she would rather have the young lady photographed in her home for this memorable event.....I think it is possible with this customer to sell a package, making your required fees etc...the big profit comes in the sale after the shoot and after the customer sees the finished product....you can not compete if you can not get up to bat...

    The quality of a portrait on fugi crystal archive paper made from a scanned film neg is lovely...

    .....another slam dunk when competing with most 35mm d&*(% shooters is to shoot in 120 format and scan the negs.......show the customer an 11 x 14 or 16 x 20...I would think residual sales and word of mouth recommendations would be worth landing the sale.....graduations, proms etc...are a really big business..it is in the marketing package...sell your self higher...Robert is right, there is a market for quality or market yourself to those that can justifiably afford your services, Luis Vitton alive and well....in Vegas some actually lease Turbo Bently Coupes for 26 months contract for $4000 per month, after a substantial deposit of course...

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