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  1. #21
    copake_ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky
    How do you figure that, George? I thought he dealt with things VERY sensitively. I think he addressed the issue already - or did I just imagine that-?

    Were you right beside 7 when they pulled it's structure? That would have been insane to witness (well, not that 1 and 2 weren't even moreso!!). My god. The mind reels. Watching it on TV was intense enough!

    ?

    Where were you that bright sunny day? Sitting at home in LA watching TV?

    As to where I was, I scrammed my ass out of there right after the second plane hit 2WTC around 9:17AM. I may not be a hero - but at least I'm not so stupid as to stand in the way of those who are! I caught probably the last 6-line subway train of the day. I chose the local because I figured that if they shut down the system - the stations were closer together for evacuation. And I chose to go to the subway because I remembered that's where the Londoner's went during the blitz bombings in WWII!

    As a matter of fact, 7 didn't fall until around 6PM - long after the Towers had dropped. Oh, and it did not have to be pulled down - it came down all by itself! 7WTC (where no one died) included a ConEd power substation encased in the first 8 or so floors). As a consequence, there was a large diesel fuel tank beneath the substation to power it in emergencies. It was the final explosion of this fuel that resulted in the destruction of 7.

    7 has been replaced by a new building - it's site was always "peripheral" to the actual WTC complex such that there has been no controversy about rebuilding there - and is now finally beginning to attract some office tenants (one of my old employers - Moody's Investors Service - just recently signed a lease )

    And, at the end of the day - what do you really have to offer to this thread? Is there an iconic photo you wish to speak of?


    As to Brunner's remarks:

    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner
    Probably the one of the government dancing on the constitution....

    Thats the knee jerk answer. Actually what remains is to see if 9/11 will be historically significant. Don't anyone freak out, as I'm not belittling or demeaning the event, just saying alllot can happen in 100 years that reduces many events, and elevates others. 9/11 may or may not be important a 100 years from now. Since there is no one iconic image, I wouldn't expect one to emerge.
    I'll say this:

    Within the span of a few short minutes, 2300 innocent people were killed in a terrorist attack. They were ordinary men and women going about their ordinary business on a bright, clear and sunny, late Summer day. As we came to learn, they comprised the very diversity of their City and Nation. They were people of many races, ethnicities and creeds - and they were all New Yorkers and Americans.

    On that day, their nation was not at war such that they should fear they might be subject to an attack. They had no reason to suspect that their ordinary actions that morning would be their last. They went to work that morning having every right to expect that their day would be normal and they would return home at the end of it to once again see their family and friends - their "loved ones".

    Never before in the history of the US have so many innocent people been slaughtered in a violent attack in such a single event. If this atrocity is not remembered 100 years from now - then it will likely mean that only more horrible and unspeakable events will have occurred subsequently.

    But we in New York will build at the site of this horror a beautiful memorial that will speak to future generation of the atrocity that occurred and, more importantly, of the heroism it engendered. Long after the cynical pundits and opportunistic politicians of our present day have passed from the scene this memorial will stand as a reminder of what occurred on 9/11/01.

  2. #22
    Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Oh, and it did not have to be pulled down - it came down all by itself! 7WTC (where no one died) included a ConEd power substation encased in the first 8 or so floors). As a consequence, there was a large diesel fuel tank beneath the substation to power it in emergencies. It was the final explosion of this fuel that resulted in the destruction of 7.
    Just curious - why did the landlord (larry silverstein) say it was a controlled demo then?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky
    Just curious - why did the landlord (larry silverstein) say it was a controlled demo then?
    Sparky,

    Thank you for reminding me why they have an "Ignore" function on these websites!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    ?
    As to Brunner's remarks:



    I'll say this:

    Within the span of a few short minutes, 2300 innocent people were killed in a terrorist attack. They were ordinary men and women going about their ordinary business on a bright, clear and sunny, late Summer day. As we came to learn, they comprised the very diversity of their City and Nation. They were people of many races, ethnicities and creeds - and they were all New Yorkers and Americans.

    On that day, their nation was not at war such that they should fear they might be subject to an attack. They had no reason to suspect that their ordinary actions that morning would be their last. They went to work that morning having every right to expect that their day would be normal and they would return home at the end of it to once again see their family and friends - their "loved ones".

    Never before in the history of the US have so many innocent people been slaughtered in a violent attack in such a single event. If this atrocity is not remembered 100 years from now - then it will likely mean that only more horrible and unspeakable events will have occurred subsequently.

    But we in New York will build at the site of this horror a beautiful memorial that will speak to future generation of the atrocity that occurred and, more importantly, of the heroism it engendered. Long after the cynical pundits and opportunistic politicians of our present day have passed from the scene this memorial will stand as a reminder of what occurred on 9/11/01.
    Still not sure why you would think I disagree with you, George.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Sparky,

    Thank you for reminding me why they have an "Ignore" function on these websites!

    whatever. this is him sayin' it - right here. It was a practical decision. I'm sure that the fact that the building was pre-wired with demolition charges doesn't mean anything. Lots of buildings are.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...verstein&hl=en

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner
    Still not sure why you would think I disagree with you, George.
    Simple:

    You said: "Actually what remains is to see if 9/11 will be historically significant."

    Do you really think that we who went through that day will allow it to be anything less than "historically significant"?

    Each and every day, hundreds, if not thousands, of tourists visit GZ. When we have finished the rebuilding the site and the memorial, GZ will be as "iconic" a locale as any that yet exists in NY or the US.

    More importantly, upon the ashes of the WTC we are building an entire new "city" downtown. Since 9/11/01 over 25,000 new housing units have been constructed. We are creating an entirely new community that will celebrate life while commemorating those who died that day.

    We are using the tragedy of 9/11/01 to renew what was a moribund locale within our city. We are using an atrocity as a catalyst to renew what was the historical founding site of our City.

    Whether folks elsewhere in the US like it or not - NYC is, and remains, the iconic image of America to much of the rest of the world. When we are done (well - we're never really "done" here) the world will see how we channelled tragedy and atrocity into serving as a catalyst to the renewing of our city as we prepare to commence its fourth century.

  7. #27
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    Okay, here's for Sparky, I'm not sayin anything, just here's some other info.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

    And George, I appreciate the sentiment, and the conviction, but none of us know future history, and who or what or how it will regard. I said may or may not. I hope it does go down as you wish. That and 2 bucks will get me a beer.

    As to the topic, I believe modern media has blitzkrieged us with such an alarming amount of imagery, that "iconic" images of events are hard to come by. I think that the sheer volume and violence of imagery, video, endless repetition, airplay, internet, etc. dilutes the impact of any single image.

    When it happened, I heard many people say it was like a movie, and they are right, we've seen it all before, in bits and pieces. And of course now the movie is out. I haven't seen it so I can't say if I think it is better than the CNN version. Sold allot of soap with that one though.

  8. #28
    Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner
    Sold allot of soap with that one though.
    I'll say!

  9. #29
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    What's really sad - is that our most 'iconic' images take the form of advertising - or else Tom Cruise jumping up and down on Oprah's sofa, or a still from American Idol. Sick.

  10. #30
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    They were people of many races, ethnicities and creeds - and they were all New Yorkers and Americans.
    Not belittling anyone's loss here or anything, but an estimated 500 of those who died in the WTC attack were foreign nationals.


    -----------My Flickr-----------
    Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.

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