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  1. #21
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltw View Post
    Why are we unable to separate the concept of capture, from the concept of output?!
    We are able to do that. But until this point he was not doing that: he marketed his work based on the quality of his method. That is the issue for him, going forward, as I see it.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  2. #22

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    This doesn't surprise me one bit. As a technician the degree of control one has over the printing process is so much greater in digital than it is in analogue. After seeing the Eggleston show at the Met where dye-transfers were seen side by side ink-jet prints the differences were too subtle to merit real attention. But then that was Eggleston, with work as derivative as Ctein's the technical aspect is just about all there is so yeah, for him it's a big deal.

  3. #23

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    I've (honestly) never heard of this guy.

    (And I've been happily taking and printing photos since I was a school-kid, so I guess I'll not worry too much.....)

  4. #24
    André E.C.'s Avatar
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    My thoughts are:

    "Who the F*** is the guy? Who cares with what he does or think?"

  5. #25
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    I've (honestly) never heard of this guy.

    (And I've been happily taking and printing photos since I was a school-kid, so I guess I'll not worry too much.....)
    Have to agree, I'd never heard of Ctein until I joining this forum, and I don't rate his work as outstanding.

    But if he's shooting all colour work then I'm not remotely surprised at his decision.

    Ian

  6. #26

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    His book Post Exposure is definitely worth picking up for anyone who works in the darkroom. While I've gotten a lot more out of other books I've read, it does collect some interesting facts all in one place.

  7. #27
    arealitystudios's Avatar
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    As far as I’m concerned he should use whatever materials he is most happy using to get the final print he is most happy showing. If that means going digital for Ctein so be it.

    What bothers me though is when people aren’t entirely honest with the reasons why they shift. For example, I was recently at a gallery here in Portland that carries a lot of prints by Jock Sturges. Some of the prints are traditional fiber base silver gelatin prints. Others are digital based off of a scanned negative. There is an obvious difference in quality, even to the casual print observer.

    So I asked the gallery owner why the shift from traditional prints to digital prints and she replied, “well Mr. Sturges feels there aren’t any high quality Fiber papers left so he is scanning his negatives now.”

    I just about jumped out a window at that moment.

    Now granted this was the gallery owner speaking, and not Jock Sturges himself but to go around and make the claim that one has switched work flow because there is nothing available in the traditional medium is both untrue and unethical in my opinion.

    If you switched because you find it easier that is fine. If you switched because you think it looks better that is fine. However, don’t make the claim that your traditional materials are no longer available or you can’t find anything of “high quality” when clearly that is not true.

  8. #28
    Curt's Avatar
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    I believe that if Ansel Adams had lived long enough he would have been one of the first leaders to "go" digital, in fact he alludes to it in his later writings about future manipulation of his negatives. To post here you need a computer, to post photographs you need a scanner, the electronics and digital World is all around and it can't be ignored. In one video Ansel Adams was sitting in front of his computer while typing, not his IBM Selectric but a computer. What do you think he would have done with a modern computer, scanner and printer? This site is for the discussion of Analog photography and is restricted to that subject and here the 10,000 pound Gorilla in the room is digital. Don't be shocked when others choose to use the new technology, you are not required to use it yourself.

    Curt
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  9. #29
    Chris Nielsen's Avatar
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    I'm not surprised, really. In fact I'm more surprised he didn't do this sooner. Not after hearing him talk about how much trouble it is to produce one of these prints, also how much trouble it is getting the material. I was just blown away by how *hard* the whole thing seemed. I get the idea of art not being easy, but really, just how hard does it need to be???

  10. #30

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    I agree that 1) it's irrelevant what Ctein does personally (both because his images are uninteresting TO ME and because of the incredible amount of ego expressed in his writings that is not -- TO ME -- justified by the work) and 2) whatever any photographer chooses to use as his medium, more power to him or her, it's no skin off my teeth (nose?).

    The point for me is film availability and how this and a thousand other quitters affects it. I guess I wanted to hear (respectfully expressed) opinions about whether this could impact film use. The more high profile guys who quit (and whether or not you know of him, he is fairly high profile in color printing circles and darkroom technical circles) the more I worry about being able to buy Tri-X and Portra NC and Provia 400X, etc etc. I guess "worry" aint that great a reason for posting a new thread, but hey, I've got allergies today and I'm feeling sensitive. Soothe me people, don't yell at me! I come here to feel good!

    To Curt: It's also uninteresting TO ME what Ansel Adams would have done. He had good technique and made good photos, but he's no Saint and he's no prophet and if he contributed to killing film, I would question him.



 

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