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  1. #11

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    1. A controversial statement to start with. This seems to be the way your list will go on. Provocative opinions presented as fact. Still, to start, you seem to be implying that so-called photographers who make photographs can't use their cameras.

    But clearly on the evidence that these musicians who can't play or read do make music (whether you like it or not) and that today's photographers do produce so-called photographs both would clearly be false statements.

    2. That's a lot to put into one statement. It might be true today but any truer than it was yesterday? But let's not talk about talent or creativity as no one knows what they are (see below). Originality – the idea of originality has been debunked long ago. Quality - you really cannot say that quality does not exist.

    Photography and music. At the moment the only thing I'd agree with that you imply in your post is that artforms go around in circles. Endless recycling of the past. Now, The Past has always been plundered by the artists of The Present and that is the way it will always be but what I fail to see is new modes of thinking about music and photography, whatever they use as a starting point. Where I do see it is in very few individuals outside of the mainstream. I also think that it tends to be coming from those who not only embrace new technology but find new ways of thinking with the technology. It is the thinkers that produce the new art of tomorrow.

    3. So what. And what's a camera? Read Vilem Flusser.

    4. What is it and where does talent lie? With your reference to sampling, the late 20th Century critique of the myth of originality seems to have passed you by. At the simplest level of argument, sampling just makes the artistic strategy of copying and stealing more evident than it was 100 years ago. Creative theft. Picasso liked it ,and if done with the right amount of bare-faced insolence, so do I.

    And how does this relate to photography? I don't see much evidence in the way of any sampling equivalent as technological directive in photography. More's the pity as photography is on the whole so stuck in a 20th Century rut.

    5. Maybe they are looking at it from different point of view to you. Or are you actually saying that maybe they're stupid or insensitive and that you're not? And which mediocre art form are you referring to?

    6. It's hard to make money because everyone is an artist/musician producing material for consumption. Like most everywhere else there are so many people being photographers that we dont need them any more. The photo is not art and the market itself is devalued.

    7. Not sure what you are getting at here. Market saturation? Yes, as with all the stuff poured out by the (imo, awful) creative industries. So therefore – go underground. Find new ways to make a living from what you do . Move away from the established and industry-controlled revenue mechanisms.

    In general, most of the new and creative photo art of tomorrow will be made digitally. The old photo art of yesterday will still be made today using old film cameras. This is the youthful disease of retro-mania ( to borrow Simon Reynolds' term).

    Quote Originally Posted by EricO View Post

    I’m still listening to and preferring music from the 80’s and still using cameras from the 80’s and 90’s.
    The 80's? Apart from Japanese noise, that was the worst decade for music ever. Get with it! And get a proper digital camera, whilst you're at it.
    Last edited by mr.datsun; 07-06-2011 at 07:39 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #12
    Ian David's Avatar
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    The main point of similarity between music and photography is that, in both spheres, it is now so easy to get your creations out into the world that I now have to wade through a lot of junk to find the really excellent stuff.

    I suspect there is more good music and photography happening now than ever before. It just so happens that we are also exposed to a lot more rubbish than ever before.

    Ian

  3. #13

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    So it sounds like the OP thinks all the music today is made by no-talent clones of Britney Spears. I've been listening to a radio station here in Denver that plays tons of really great stuff including a lot of remarkable local bands. I'm in my mid-50s and I don't even know what they call this kind of music, but I wouldn't say Linkin Park, Rise Against, Coldplay, Incubus and Foofighters don't know what they're doing.

  4. #14
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    I look at mainstream music the same way I look at stock photography.
    K.S. Klain

  5. #15
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.datsun View Post
    The 80's? Apart from Japanese noise, that was the worst decade for music ever. Get with it! And get a proper digital camera, whilst you're at it.
    And a karaoke machine

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricO View Post
    1. It used to be that musicians could play instruments and some could even read music
    2. Todayís musicians (and their music) lack talent, creativity, originality, and quality
    3. There are many times more people making ďmusicĒ these days with all of the computer software thatís out there
    4. If you strip away music videos, dancers and the sampling of other musicianís music most musicians are exposed as talentless
    5. The fans of this mediocre art form are oblivious to the lack of quality in the music
    6. Itís becoming harder to earn money because of all of the techno advances that allow a mediocre artist to make music without having real skills
    7. The marketing of the music is making it harder for the artist to earn money

    Iím still listening to and preferring music from the 80ís and still using cameras from the 80ís and 90ís.

    Would you care to list the analogies to photography to these bullets?
    As a musician that actually plays an instrument, I have had all the same thoughts that you have posted. I agree with the analogy.

    I also sum it up by dividing things up into computer or virtual instrument vs 'real' vibrating instrument that one spends years learning how to play. With images, I make the distinction between computer graphics and 'real' light rays from a lens and shadows from silver particles.

  7. #17
    M.A.Longmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Those UK members who remember Splodginess Abounds will be glad to hear I refused to photograph then ( at No 1 at the time with "Two Pints of Lager and a packet of crisps)
    Ian
    .
    Thanks for reminding me, Ian.
    I just checked my phone to see if " Two Pints " was still on my playlist.
    And cranked it up, that was my theme song on Friday nights back in 1980 !

    Ron
    .

  8. #18
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricO View Post
    1. It used to be that musicians could play instruments and some could even read music
    Some of us still can! However, I don't think you need to be able to read music to be a great musician.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #19
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucemuir View Post
    Haha, what good music that was produced in the 80's are you listening to?
    j/k you need to realize art is quite subjective.
    Indeed. For me the 80s was one of the worst decades for music.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #20
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    The '80's, huh?
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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